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Bull Fight

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HTR

08-15-2001 19:08:41

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I just encountered a 204 work bull, with a reversomatic drive, and a front end loader. My neighbor just bought it at auction, for $3000. The hydraulic pump is destroyed, and the three point hitch arms are gone. It looks like about $900 for after market pump and three point hitch arms.

I didn't know such a thing existed, so after reading the repair manual I see it dosn't have live hdraulics or live pto, and the pto runs backwards when the tractor is moving in reverse. He doesn't know if he wants to fix it or try to unload it at the next auction.

He wanted to use a rotary chopper and a small rototiller. Our question is, has anyone used one of these for chopping and other pto work? How do you make out with the pto running backwards when in reverse? Will a over running clutch on the pto work ok when backing up?

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Ralph

08-18-2001 20:59:49

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Re: Bull Fight in reply to HTR, 08-15-2001 19:08:41

Some of these tractors were designed where the hydraulic pump for a front end loader was driven from the front of the tractor. There was a shaft connecting the pump to the front crankshaft pulley. With the engine running, you would always have hydraulics available for the loader. When the hydraulic system is attached directly to the engine, it is considered as a live hydraulic system. The tractor clutch will not stop the hydraulic system. Ford tractors starting in 1953 used this method.
For the PTO running backwards, you have the ground pto engaged. Raising the lever on the pto should put the system in neutral, one more position up should give you engine pto.
This tractor may not have a 2 stage clutch. On a 2 stage clutch, pushing the petal about 1/2 of the travel stops the tractor. Going the complete travel stops the tractor and pto. If you do not have a 2 stage clutch, pushing the clutch stops the tractor and pto together. A over running clutch is worthless when running in ground pto and tractor in reverse. These clutchs are designed for only one direction, clockwise facing the pto shaft.
Does the tractor have an internal hydraulic system? I have seen some Workbulls with no 3 point lift arms that did not have the internal hydraulic system. The 3 point lift arms were not installed for that reason. That may help in determining the worth of the unit. Good luck!!

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HTR

08-19-2001 19:12:53

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Re: Re: Bull Fight in reply to Ralph, 08-18-2001 20:59:49

This tractor has no clutch, it has a torque converter like in an automatic trans. car. It has two multidisk clutch packs for the direction reverser. The Pto and hydraulic pump runs from a gear in back of the reverser; there is no reverse provided for in the gear transmision. This means for reverse travel the transmission gear train, pto shaft, and hyd. pump are driven backward. There is no live or continuous pto. The hydraulic pump, being a cam driven piston pump, will pump the same turned in either direction.

My thoughts were, the over running clutch would work the same as on any non live pto, but would be double speeded, from the momentum of the chopper, and then reversing the pto. I didn't know how unhandy the tractor operation is, and if the over running clutch can stand the double speed and last very long. If the over running clutch happened to seize with the pto in reverse, I would think there would be an explosion of some sort.

The loader has its own front mounted pump.

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Ralph

08-20-2001 17:36:18

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Re: Re: Re: Bull Fight in reply to HTR, 08-19-2001 19:12:53

Are you for sure that this is actually a MF Workbull. We had one on the farm in the early 60's, unit had a two stage clutch, 6 speed trans, there was no shuttle trans. Our's was very similar to the other massey tractors except much heavier built. Heavy radiator guard, (grill), and engine crankcase guards. There were several in the area were I lived and the units were used for logging. Over the years I have seen several old massey backhoe units converted into tractors, fits the description you mention, units were sold as Workbulls. Sorry I cannot help. Saw a Workbull about a year ago, was owned by the Department of Interior and used on the Blue Ridge Parkway. It was built like the one we had on the farm. Good Luck!!

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Ray,IN

08-15-2001 21:24:23

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Re: Bull Fight in reply to HTR, 08-15-2001 19:08:41

The only thing I can answer is that an over running clutch will not work when the PTO shaft turns the other way. You may buy one that works for one direction or the other, not both.

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