Another 165 question

If the left lever controls your three point, (normal on all of our valves) here's a possible scenario:

With the under-seat valve lever in the raise position, the system has free flow up from the internal pump to the internal ram cylinder under the case cover. In the neutral or off position (oil flowing to remote valves), the oil in the ram is trapped by the spool.

The ram piston has rings, like a car engine piston, and can let some oil leak past.

The pump is designed like a 4-cyl engine - 4 cyls/pistons, intake and exhaust valves for each, control valve (throttle) on the intake to control oil flow. The valves wear over time, as do the pistons, cyls, rings, and the intake control valve. (Some earlier pumps (early 35/65) had no rings.) Oil can leak past all of these when shut off - very little when new, increasing with wear.

In the lift position and engine off, you get oil leakage from all points, resulting in the implement settling. With your valve in the neutral position, the back flow to the pump is blocked, so only ram leakage occurs, so little settling.

With the scene you've described, leakage is far higher from your pump. It will work well for a long time this way, but eventually will need a repair kit.

Your question cleared up the picture for me - until now, I had assumed the ram piston rings were the major culprit in the settling. I've made a few recent posts to that effect!

Thanks for clarifying the puzzle.

I sure appreciate the info. That clears up the mystery for me. I'm quite a novice on these machines but I'm willing to learn. It has been a learning experience. I bought this tractor from a guy who had been using it for years. He tried to always fix the things that broke but was willing to live the lift problem. Other then that and a couple of injectors leaking fuel it seems to everything I want and more. My next project is to put a front end loader on it. Do you know of any problems that I might anticipate? Thanks for the help.

Gwen

You should have no problems - just don't oversize the bucket. At a guess, I'd suggest 1500 lb. capacity, sized for whatever material you're handling. (The 30 industrial - heavy front axle - is rated at 2500-3000 lb with a 17 cu ft. bucket.)

Internal pump flow is only about 4 to 5 gpm; if you're buying a loader off another tractor, the cylinders may be sized for a 12-16 gpm front mounted pump.

Your 3-spool under seat valve can operate the loader - with this observation: some valve spools were single acting - single outlets from each spool. Some were double acting - two outlets above each spool (front and back). Some had adjustments (one of ours has screwdriver-adjustable 1/4" rods on the front under the spools) to switch from single to double-acting.

Loaders can have single acting lift cyls (no down pressure) - or double acting; buckets usually have double acting tip cylinders.

If your underseat valve matches the loader needs, you're flying, otherwise you add the appropriate valve to replace one of your fender units (if those are valves).

Generally loader control valves are located up on the right, near the throttle. If you're buying, you need only 5 to 6 gpm capacity, and can use one of the newer compact valves.

Jack

Thanks for the info. I now feel like I can start looking for a loader for my tractor. I would like to find one that is used but might condsider a new one. In my area (Arkansas) JD's are the more promenant tractors. So you don't see many used MF's.

I live about 20 miles east of Ft. Smith and I'm familiar with Perrin. I have dealt with them some but would agree that they are proud of their merchandise. I would like to find a used front end loader because I don't know how long my tractor will last. I have know reason to think this except for the age. Thanks for the reply