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70 engine miss

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DICK BRYANT

01-31-2003 10:44:17




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I rebuilt and restored a 1956 gas 70 a few years ago and it ran great. Last year all of a sudden it developed a problem whereby after running fine for about 10 minutes, it will start running on only one cylinder. It don't even have enough power to pull itself and will stall out. I can restart it fairley easily but it is only hitting on one. Since there cant be too much wrong, as there isn't a lot there, i am assuming it is either the coil or condenser breaking down after it gets heated up. I changed the coil and still have the problem, but it was an old coil and may be faulty also. However since it exhibits the same exact problem with either coil makes me wonder if it is the condenser or something else. I was going to buy a new coil, but thought i would see if anyone has any ideas. After letting it set for awhile until it cools down, i can restart it and drive off.

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andy

02-01-2003 14:56:26




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 Re: 70 engine miss in reply to DICK BRYANT, 01-31-2003 10:44:17  
I thought I owned a fairly decent JD 70 gas. Had used it quite a bit for light work. Then one day it wouldn't hardly pull itself around in low. Missing and popping. I thought something was really wrong with it. When I had time I pulled the plugs. One cylinder had no compression. Pulled the valve cover and one of the rocker arms was tight on the main shaft. The push rod would open it, but the valve spring would not close it. So, the valve would remain open. Sprayed it down good with solvents and oil while tapping it back with a light hammer after I had opened it by cranking the starter. Finally loosened up and worked just fine. I need to check for adequate oil lubrication on the rocker arm shaft. Before I found the rocker arm problem it wouldn't even start and I barely was even able to drive it to where I parked it when the problem occurred. Just goes to show you what one valve will do to a two cylinder. andy

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Lee

02-01-2003 16:21:57




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 Re: Re: 70 engine miss in reply to andy, 02-01-2003 14:56:26  
Andy, can you remember if the stuck valve was one of the two inside valves or one of the two outside valves? Only the two outside valves (exhaust) have holes in the oil devlivery tube that drips oil onto that particular rocker arm. From there it should be kind of tossed onto the exhaust valve stem and then be worked into the guide/stem clearance area to properly lubricate that valve. You might have the drip hole plugged.

On the intake valves, there is no drip hole. I assume that any oil placed on an intake stem would be sucked into the engine thus causing exccesive smoking and/or oil consumption. Mine was rigged with holes all around but then somebody else went in and soldered up the intake drip holes - I assume that my poor old Johnny had at least two prior mechanics working on her and one wasn't all that bright. Now I'm wondering if I can avoid your problem by making the exhaust valve drip holes larger to help oil up everything in the 'top' end?

I'm just curious to know which valve stuck on yours and if it was due to a plugged oil drip hole for one of the exhaust valves? Thanks.

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andy

02-01-2003 22:28:50




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 Re: Re: Re: 70 engine miss in reply to Lee, 02-01-2003 16:21:57  
It was the second valve in on the flywheel side. Not for sure but would that be an exhaust valve? I believe when it stuck open that I could get some flames out of the muffler when I was cranking it to try to get it started. That would make sense. I couldn't believe how tight that particular rocker was on the shaft that supports all of the rockers. It took a lot of spraying with penetrating oil and motor oil as well as tapping it back and forth. I do need to revisit that problem when it gets warm and make sure it is being properly lubricated. I did put some "Mystery Oil" in the crank case along with fresh oil. The entire valve train looked "sludged" up. I do believe the last oil change was with non-detergent oil. So with the "Mystery Oil" and new detergent oil maybe things with clean up some and it won't tighten up again.

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Lee

02-02-2003 01:53:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 70 engine miss in reply to andy, 02-01-2003 22:28:50  
Thanks for geting back to me on that, Andy. That would be number one intake valve and it's not supposed to have an oil drip hole. Which tells me that maybe making the exhaust valve drip holes on the ends of the oil distrubution tube bigger might be a good thing after all. That and confirming good running oil pressure of course.

Sounds like it was the rocker arm that was the actual trouble? When you go to work on it make sure that oil drips from both ends of that oil tube, I suspect that the left (flywheel) side or number one side hole doesn't drip as much as the right. Some of that sludge build up might be inside the tube too, possibly blocking the hole?

The intake valves are the two inner ones and the exhaust valves are the two outer ones. Symptoms would have been wild in any event :) Nice to get a handle on the ole girls' weaknesses like this - Thanks.

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Gman

01-31-2003 17:17:28




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 Re: 70 engine miss in reply to DICK BRYANT, 01-31-2003 10:44:17  
Dick this might sound crazy,I went down and fired up my work "G" to rake hay,when it fired a dead bird came out of the stack,so it don't hurt to check simple things like the air stack mud dobbers like to camp out in there and it will drive you wild trying to trouble shoot it just some little pointers. Later Gman



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Lee

01-31-2003 16:11:53




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 Re: 70 engine miss in reply to DICK BRYANT, 01-31-2003 10:44:17  
My 2 cents...wires. Buy her a new set of spark plug wires.



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DICK BRYANT

04-29-2003 10:19:14




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 Re: Re: 70 engine miss in reply to Lee, 01-31-2003 16:11:53  
I started this message back in January, and just got around to fixing the problem 2 weeks ago when it got warm and i had time to get into it. Thanks to all of the GOOD guys out there that gave me suggestions. The problem: One bad plug wire. I put two new ones on anyway and now she runs like a new one. Thanks again



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Clooney

01-31-2003 13:41:40




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 Re: 70 engine miss in reply to DICK BRYANT, 01-31-2003 10:44:17  
Dick, we really don't know if it's fuel or spark by your description above. Due to the unique firing order on the 2-cylinder Deere some problems that effect all cylinders on a multi-cylinder engine will show up as only effecting one on the 2-cylinder Deere. The lack of power can point to problems on both cylinders.

~Start with the obvious, open the carb bowl drain valve & see if you have a pencil sized stream of fuel for at least 30 seconds, [if not, find out why, possibly a plugged strainer, either at the carb inlet or strainer assembly].

~Does running with the choke partially closed help the problem? If so suspect a carb internal problem.

~If you are getting black smoke when the problem occurs suspect a malfunctioning choke [just because the linkage is in the off position doesn't mean the choke valve is actually open inside the carb [common problem].

~Make sure there isn't any water in the air cleaner cup. [it doesn't hurt to check the obvious]

~If the fuel flow is good then move on to the ignition... Start with the points, open the gap to about .025" to see if a worn distributor cam or distributor bushing is causing a lack of proper point opening when hot [closed up points will act like it's running out of power & hitting on only one cylinder]. If the point adjustment doesn't help, suspect the condenser is possibly going away when hot [long shot]. It could be a plug wire but they are usually worse when cold & damp. That 70 [unless an LP] uses a 12 volt internal resistor coil & no ballast resistor [you have a 56 so who knows if it's a late one though]. If you have installed a 6 volt coil, or a 12 volt coil that needs a resistor, it might be cutting out when hot. Is the coil getting real hot when the problem occurs? If so, suspect a 6 volt coil or one that needs an external ballast resistor. If you have an ohm meter, measure the primary resistance between the (+) & (-) terminals on the coil & if under 2 ohms it needs a resistor. [if over 3 ohms it has the correct internal resistor].. If the coil isn't getting real hot when it's acting up, try a jumper wire from the [BAT] terminal on the voltage regulator to the non-distributor terminal side of the coil to see if the problem goes away, if the jumper helps suspect a high resistance in the ignition switch, [common on a tractor that sits for extended periods].

~If the ignition system doesn't appear to be the problem see if adding some heat to the carb by setting the manifold heat valve to hot helps. [maybe the carb is freezing up inside].

~If all above doesn't help you might pull the rocker cover when hot & push on the valves to look for a sticking valve [long shot but possible].

~Go through everything & verify that you have good fuel flow, proper operating choke valve, good voltage to the coil, proper coil, points at proper [or even a little bigger] gap, good hot compression, no water in the air filter, & new spark plugs. Something should show up to point you at the problem.

~Let us know what you find?..... .

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Jack

01-31-2003 13:28:32




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 Re: 70 engine miss in reply to DICK BRYANT, 01-31-2003 10:44:17  
I had a 52 G that would foul a plug every little bit and I found it to be the rocker arm setting was outta whack.Adjusted them and"POOF",fixed.



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Mike J

01-31-2003 12:50:10




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 Re: 70 engine miss in reply to DICK BRYANT, 01-31-2003 10:44:17  
I had a 1953 50 that did this it ended up one of the butterflys in the carb came off got sucked in and stuck under a valve took the head off removed it put a new one in the carb and was back in business.



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John T

01-31-2003 11:36:16




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 Re: 70 engine miss in reply to DICK BRYANT, 01-31-2003 10:44:17  
Dick, to start with, the same points, condensor and coil fires BOTH cylinders, so if its always only ONE cylinder that starts to miss out, yet the other cylinder is still gettign a strong blue spark, the problem would have to be a plug or plug wire on the bad side or a distributor cap or rotor problem ASSUMING that one cylinder isnt low on compression or an oil burner or has a sticky valve or bad guides etc., and its an ignition problem in the first place.

You might first remove both plugs and observe if each has about an equal blue spark across its gap (both should have about same gap of 0.030 or so) or, if one is better than the other??? If one side always has a hotter bluer spark, I suspect a plug wire or plug or distributor cap problem (carbon track or crack), or maybe a worn distributor bushing or low gap, but I doubt that .

A compression test on BOTH cylinders may pinpoint the problem (if one is considerably lower than the other) to be a cylinder, not an ignition problem.

Then (if both sides compresssion is about equal), before suspecting a bad coil or condensor, I would first try swapping wires and plugs (or just install new Autolite 388's and wires, especially if they arent solid wire core, you need to have them NOT carbon auto supressor type) to see if its still always one particular cylinder that causes the problem, or it was a bad wire or plug etc on that one side.

If after warm up and she starts to miss out, look at the plugs and see if one is all black and sooty or has any apparent shiny black oil fouling problems, while the other is clean and gray (as should be)??? If so, I suspect a cylinder or fuel over an ignition problem.

NOW, if both sides have about similar sparks and compression and no one particular side seems to foul a plug, BUT a warm up still causes missing, THEN I would suspect a bad condensor or possibly coil. Take a look at the points first, however, to be sure they are not pitted or burned or carboned or have a gray coating, (all bad signs) and re gap them or beter yet, replace them if they were burned or pitted . In addition to misses after warm up problems being a condensor or coil, the points can often be the culprit.

TRY Simple things first, like plugs or plug wires, equal compression both sides, clean crack and carbon free distributor cap, then points (clean and gapped or replaced), then condensor, then coil. Good luck, Ol John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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