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3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows
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what can I pull?

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Geo

01-22-2003 18:06:23




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Have a 720 STD Diesel and someone said it should pull a 4 bottom plow all day with no problem. When they say that it can pull a 4 bottom, what width of cut do they mean? I cant see that a 720 could pull a typical 4 bottom, I remember my dad pulling a 4 bottom with a 4020D and it took all she had to pull it, had to use differential lock and still spinning - cant remember for sure, but I think this was a 16 inch bottom width.

Guess it depends on the soil type and depth, we have clay and plow about 9" -10" deep. I havent tried the 720 out yet, so I am wondering if I should get a 3 bottom and be safe or go for a 4 bottom. Your thoughts?

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JWH

01-23-2003 20:08:29




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
Having spent much of my callow youth on a 720 Diesel on farms with tough clay soils, you might want to consider a 3-bottom. Our 720 would pull 4-14's in the gumbo, but would have liked 3-14's a lot better. The 720 we had had the "fast" transmission, so we plowed in 2nd gear, though it would pull it in 3rd in lighter soil. As to plows, 14-inch bottoms are just a bunch easier to pull in clay soils, and do a better job, in my opinion. 16-inch bottoms are fine in lighter soils, though. If you want to work your 720 but not work it to death, go with 3-14's, and you'll probably get just as much done.

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David B

01-23-2003 17:12:50




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
The Diesels were 4 bottom tractors but if it is tough plowing you may have to get in 2nd gear and that isn't very fast. For amusement, I use to get my JD 70 owners operator manual out and read it a young man who helped me farm. It the front of the manual under, "capacity for work" it said 4 bottoms in most conditions, 5 bottoms in many. The guy that wrote that must of had green paint instead of blood in his veins. With 4 bottoms behind that old 70 you just but in in low and used the hydraulic lever to run the plow at a depth to where you could keep moving. The later 720's and 730's did a much better job and 4 bottoms was the norm.

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Brian F. Williams

01-23-2003 15:14:48




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
We used to have a 720 Diesel RC. Our neighbor laughed at us when we pulled a 5 knife anhydrous applicator home. He said his 4020 was barely enough tractor for one of those. He quit laughing when we walked right along in 4th gear. He claimed that the 4020 wouldn't pull that load that fast. Never under estimate the torque of a 2 cylinder John Deere. Torque is about everything.

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G Taylor.....torque is everything

01-23-2003 20:20:01




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 Re: Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Brian F. Williams, 01-23-2003 15:14:48  
Torque is just a measure of how much twist applied to a shaft. 1000 ft labs of torque can be applied to a stationary shaft and net work and power is zero. I've seen a 630 out pull 830's in the 10,000 lb class by a few inches. The 630 was perfectly balancd with some sharp tires. While it had less power and did less work per hour it did have more drawbar pull than the 830. Out in the field the 830 would do more work and apply it's increased power as traveled much faster with similar drawbar pull. The two cylinder would lugg down and hold on without stalling where other equal HP tractors would stall because of torque rise, not power. Overballasting a tractor and gearing down may pull a mountain but not going to efficiently use the engine's power or do more work than a higher HP tractor.

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DP

01-23-2003 11:19:41




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
A three bottom 16" plow will be the best match for all round use. I've seen them hooked to 4, and even a couple hooked to 5 bottom plows, but we had a three bottom on our 730 diesel, and in tough going it worked side by side with the 4020 and 4 bottom. For the footnotes department, there was a fellow showed up with a 3020 diesel and 4 bottom the same day. Bout all he did was get in everyone elses way!

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Chad Riddle

01-23-2003 07:45:35




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
My suggestion is forget about using a plow. Even under the best use a plow will lead to erosion. John Deere made a 6 ft killifer [sp?] disc...it was like a plowing disc...may be harder to find than a plow....but will work up a good seed bed faster and cheaper than a plow and save a bunch of your dirt.



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SamH

01-23-2003 07:19:37




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
I have the same opinion as the rest of the others-if a 4020 struggles with a 4 bottom plow, there is no way a 720 will pull it. However, the proof is in the pudding. Since you are not sure what will work best, don't buy anything until you have tried it or one like it. Maybe some good neighbor has a plow you can try out or if not, only buy with the agreement that you will try it out first.

Having said that, I would add that in addition to soil type, you also have to consider lay of the land. Is it steep, rolling, flat or a combination? In flat, sandy land, the 720 will probably handle 4 bottoms, but if you have steep land it won't do it. If your land is steep, then you will be pulling up hill part of the time and don't forget that you not only have to pull the plow, you also have to pick it up.

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Ty

01-23-2003 06:29:37




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
The rule of thumb for good coverage is plow have the width of cut Ex-14" would mean 7" deep etc. I have a 70D outfitted with 720 diesel system and pull 3-14 7" deep in clay. 2nd gear full throtle and is perfect. 3 and 4 I think is to fast. The tractor is comfortable with that. Like a past post that 100% throtle 80% load does work very well for those tough spots. My tires are dry and I have a 200lb weights on each rear tire. No weight up front and under normal cond. traction is perfect!

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G Taylor

01-23-2003 11:46:09




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 Re: Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Ty, 01-23-2003 06:29:37  
Sounds about right, the 70's have that *&&^^%$ fast transmission. 2nd gear in a 70(3.66mph) is like 3rd in a 720/730( 3.5 mph) . Even a 70's 3rd is close 4.75 mph vs 4.33 mph in the 720/730. I remember running fast on the hay rack to keep up with the baler in heavy hay with the 70D racing along in 1st gear(2.5mph).



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bob

01-23-2003 05:48:58




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
Now to add to the discussion what size bottom do you perfer and why? My dad alaways perferred 16in as he said they covered trash better. what do you guys think?



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Duben

01-22-2003 19:59:30




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
I grew up on a 720 pulling 5-16s in sandy soil. However, I now have a 730 and 3-16's in the clay soil where I now live is all it wants. I also own a 4020 and I can tell you that if a 4020 has a hard time pulling 4-16s, as you say, you sure wouldn't want to try pulling more than a 3 bottom with a 720.



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G Taylor

01-22-2003 19:43:24




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
Acording to the Deere engineers directions in the operators manual, a two cylinder is to be loaded at 100% full rated rpm and at 80% load. This leaves a reserve for tough spots and limits drivetrain wear. Tire manufacturs state that bias ply tires work best at 3 to 5 mph and two wheel drive tractors should be ballasted at 115 to 145lbs per HP. The 720 doesn't need any additional weight. Odds are your tractor is a rowcrop chassis with 38" tires so it should be worked in 3rd or 4th gear. A 3-16" bottom plough is lots and why lugg the poor old girl to an early death?

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John T

01-22-2003 18:37:14




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
George, I have plowed with 720 and 730 diesels in clay soils. You pretty well answered your own question, which is it all depends on the type of soil you are in and how deep you plow. Based on my plowing experience with 720 and 730's, if I were going to plow heavy clay at 10 inches in depth, I would prefer a 3 bottom and it should handle either a 14 or 16 inch, but I sure wouldnt want to pull at that depth in clay with a 4 bottom. If in dry sandy soil at 8 inch depth, sure you could probably jump up a bottom. Good Luck, Ol John T

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Bob K

01-23-2003 08:58:40




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 Re: Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to John T, 01-22-2003 18:37:14  
"...jump up a bottom." Sounds kinda' funny. Thanks Ol John T for all your help to all of us.



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Chris

01-22-2003 18:31:19




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 Re: 3 bottom vs. 4 bottom plows - what can I pull? in reply to Geo, 01-22-2003 18:06:23  
Ok I cant say for sure but i can say this. My 60 Rowcrop is to pull 3-14" plows now in my manual is says a 60 standard will pull 4-14" plows. Now I know that that 720 diesel is ALOT more tractor. I would say that it would pull 4-14" in most soils and walk with it. But if you dont have tons of plowing to do go with the 3 and not make the old girl snort to much. Thanks chris



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