Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Discussion Forum
:

Hot torque head bolts will it work

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Mike j

01-12-2003 06:58:33




Report to Moderator

I ask this question on the IH board with mixed response on an M farmall or any other tractor with a 2000 watt engine heater pluged in and that has the tractor at operating temp or above can the head bolts be retorqued without running the engine as on the M it would save the removel of the rocker assembly and the valve cover Thanks




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
ron in MN

01-12-2003 15:26:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: hot torque head bolts will it work in reply to Mike j, 01-12-2003 06:58:33  
Mike, I'm curious about your comment that you "would save the removal of the rocker assembly and the valve cover". Are all the head bolts accessible from outside the valve cover?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
mike j

01-12-2003 16:40:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: hot torque head bolts will it work in reply to ron in MN, 01-12-2003 15:26:38  
No but by using the heater I could retorque the bolts before I put the rockers and valve cover on after I replaced the head gasket



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mike J

01-12-2003 11:51:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: hot torque head bolts will it work in reply to Mike j, 01-12-2003 06:58:33  
The Heater I used takes the water out the drain on the block and puts it back in the head. It raised the temperature in the radiator to around 150 degrees. The head and the block are hot enough that you cant hold your hand on the the whole length of the engine. And the heat gauge is to the top end of the operating temperature. Just before Hot. Thought this might work and save time and thought I should explain it just a little better. I re-torqued the head bolts and gained a little over a quarter turn on each bolt at 110lbs. First Cold and then Hot THANKS

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Clooney

01-12-2003 09:11:26




Report to Moderator
 Re: hot torque head bolts will it work in reply to Mike j, 01-12-2003 06:58:33  
Mike, you really need a few loaded heating & cooling cycles to achieve a proper re-torque. Just heating the coolant isn't enough. You also need the exhaust heat of a running engine to heat the head at the exhaust ports, combustion heat of a running engine to expand the head & block, & combustion pressure in the cylinders to achieve uniform block/head/stud/gasket seating. Most of the heat a block heater puts in raises & what you see on the temp gauge probably isn't uniform across the entire block & head.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John T

01-12-2003 08:46:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: hot torque head bolts will it work in reply to Mike j, 01-12-2003 06:58:33  
Hey Mike, Im an Electrical, not a Mechanical or Thermo Engineer, but learned a little of that heat transfer stuff way way back years ago and will offer some small insight at least. I doubt if that block heater will sufficiently raise the temperature of all that iron and bolts and studs in all the right places to ever achieve the same affect as a total and complete engine running warm up. It can raise the temperature of the coolant of course, especially right at the heater, but to achieve the temperature rise and warm up and resulting expansion of all that iron and studs and bolts and nuts etc., the same as the engine running, I dont think will ever happen using a block heater. Even if it heated all the water (which it wont at greater distances form the heater) in the head and block to say 150 degrees, it would take a lot more energy (Watts) over an extended period to achieve heat transfer into and raise the temp of all that iron the same as a running engine. Once enough energy and heat transfer was put in to raise the coolant temp, then that relatively colder block and head mass is gonna be suckign off that heat and dissipating it into the air faster than its coming in, thus failing to raise the temp of that tremendous mass of iron as a runnign engine. The block heater helps and does warm the coolant and some amount of the immediate surrounding iron, but I just dont think it can raise the temp of all that mass and bolts and studs etc the same as the many times over heat energy developed by internal combustion. Anyway, thats my story and Im sticking to it, regardless if incorrect, which it may well be lol. We need a mechanical or thermo type engineer who can compute all the mases and temperatures and heat energy and delta T etc, and im sure not that. Good Luck, Ol John t Nordhoff

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jon from Indiana

01-12-2003 07:40:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: hot torque head bolts will it work in reply to Mike j, 01-12-2003 06:58:33  
Of course it will work, Heat is heat. I like your idea and will use itin future. Jon



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
David

01-12-2003 09:03:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: hot torque head bolts will it work in reply to Jon from Indiana, 01-12-2003 07:40:59  
Our local John Deere dealer advises that they don't usually do the retorque after a bit of time running but usually just stick a bit extra on the torque settings when bolting the head down initially and report no problems with this method. I've done perhaps 6 head gaskets in all (i.e. not many) and have done it both with and without a retorque. Based on my limited sample I can't say I have noticed head gaskets more prone to blow even without the retorque. Getting it a bit hot and retorquing is got to be of some benefit. I'm not advising anyone omit the retorque but tell this tale in the hope that it may be of some comfort to know that it might not end in disaster even if you don't get it spot on.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy