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One-wire alternator

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Brandon

12-23-2002 15:11:29




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I am thinking about putting a one-wire alternator on my G pulling tractor. I have never had one of these before. It sounds too easy just running one wire back to the battery. Is there anything else I should do? Can I run the wire back to the post on the starter where the battery cable attaches? Thanks for the help.

Brandon




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Doug B

12-24-2002 09:20:46




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 Re: one-wire alternator in reply to Brandon, 12-23-2002 15:11:29  
I put one on my A, best thing that I ever did!
It needs a few "R's" to make it charge...but I doubt you would ever know that it is using any h.p. I just ran a heavy wire to the batt. from the alt. and I havn't had to do a thing to it for over 2 yrs. I did buy the biggest battery that I could find,and thought that I would need to open the petcocks when starting.But after starting it once without opening them,I found out it wasnt necessary. Also, if you are the least bit mechanicly inclined, you could build your own alt. I got one from the local junkyard and got a kit from JC Whitney. It came complet with instructions. Of course I am a mechanic, so it came easy..... But any one could do it! I also got another kit from a local rebuilder shop and it was a bit cheaper than JC Whitney. Good luck,Doug

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ChuckW

12-24-2002 04:55:11




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 Re: one-wire alternator in reply to Brandon, 12-23-2002 15:11:29  
On the one wire, I suppose there is a diode or rely cut out to prevent some sore of drain down. I have one that come off a 430 but never installed any one the old tractors but have been temped. I supposed the wire back to current would follow the same route as the old imput wire? Sounds like a good idea, wonder why some manufacturer has made them look like old generators.....



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Steve from New Holland

12-24-2002 04:32:17




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 Re: one-wire alternator in reply to Brandon, 12-23-2002 15:11:29  
Brandon, I have an Cyclone A and a 720 with the one wire hook up and it works great. Both alternators begin charging before the motor is running half throttle. Follow Clooney's directions and you will be fine. As far as horsepower goes, I will disagree with the others. Once the battery is fully charged, the alternator basicly shuts off. You have almost no amperage draw on that old G, so the alternator will not be turning very hard. And beside, that big hunk of motor in that G will never notice that alternator anyway. Steve

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Steve - IN

12-23-2002 19:45:20




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 Re: one-wire alternator in reply to Brandon, 12-23-2002 15:11:29  
Brandon,

I spent a lot of years in motorsports, and I agree you don't want an extra accessory dragging down your engine if you're using your G primarily for competition.

When I was running what they called Mini-Indy cars, the road race versions had to have starters and batteries. We weren't required to run any charging system, and no fans (the airflow at over 150 mph usually being adequate). Weight and center of gravity considerations were at such a premium we ran gel cell Varta batteries in a lie down position. Those batteries had no hope of starting the car (but they would power the coil for 3 or 4 hours), so we used big humper batts wheeled up beside the car on a dolly or wagon - then plug into the onboard battery with a quick connector like this one:

third party image

This is a standard Moroso part, and is easy to come by. We were within the rules, as we did have a starter and a battery - but that rule book never said the onboard battery had to actually start the car. There were times when 10 cars qualified within .75 seconds of one another on a 2.5 mile track - so every ounce and every inch was an advantage.

I don't know if tractor pulling is that competitive, but I'd guess you could shed a few pounds and gain a few horsepower by using a lawn tractor battery with one of these connectors and a big offboard battery to start you G, then unplug it to run with no charging system.

You can run with no spark degradation for a long time on even the smallest of batteries. If there's a rule that says "stock" means with generator, I'd see if the rule book says "working generator". If not, gut the generator so it offers no resistance to the engine. For more background on how to read what the rule book doesn't say - there are some great books by the late, great Smokey Yunick I recommend. Whether it's stock cars, open wheeled cars, or tractor pulling, there's still an engine and wheels involved so the tricks have to be fairly similar. Plus - you'll know you've made your mark on your sport when there's a new addition the rule book added to cover some new trick that you thought up!

best of luck with it,

Steve

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Clooney

12-23-2002 15:41:40




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 Re: one-wire alternator in reply to Brandon, 12-23-2002 15:11:29  
Brandon, you can run a 10 gauge [over 60 amps] or 12 gauge [under 60 amps] wire from the 1 wire 10-SI alternator [BAT] post to the non-battery side of the ammeter, or directly to the positive post on the battery or starter. The system must be 12 volt negative ground for the alternator to function [unless a high dollar positive ground alternator is used].
~There are a couple of limitations of a one wire alternator, one is excitation speed, [most 1 wire alternators need a good RPM to start charging & on a low RPM tractor that usually requires a trip to wide open throttle after starting], the second limitation is they tend to lose their rotor magnetism when sitting for extended periods & need the regulator jumped to power to energize them after sitting,. The thing I don't like about the 1 wire Delco alternator is the inability to turn the rotor power off, & with the power an alternator uses to turn it while charging you are giving up some horsepower to a non traction related area..

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John T

12-23-2002 15:37:10




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 Re: one-wire alternator in reply to Brandon, 12-23-2002 15:11:29  
Brandon, I have seen these One Wire Alternators for sale over the Net or the numerous tractor parts vendors around. I think they are for Negative ground systems. They do work and are self excited and Ive seen ones that dont seem to kick in till the RPM gets up a bit. The advantage is you only need to attach a feed wire out of them to the battery, and the disadvantage is they are more expensive than the GM 10 SI which are so readily available but require a bit more wiring (see my post labeled, how to wire GM 10 SI below) As far as your question where to wire them, if you have and are using an Ammeter, it would be to its non battery side, so it will indicate the rate of charge in or out of the battery. If you dont have an Ammeter, then wire it, of course, to the battery (at the starter is fine and use No. 10 wire) so that it can get charged. PS Depending on the ignition system you have and how its input voltage varies the spark plugs energy (not much if any if its an electronic system) I assume you are aware you can save horsepower when pullign by not having to drive that darn alternator, likewise, any savings in horsepower required to turn a fan or pump water might betetr be utilized as engine torque??? I used to pull a little and as an engineer, was always looking for anyplace to gain a few horsepower lol Generators, water pumps, fans, extra gears through heavy gear oil, PTO's, exhaust restrictions, etc etc are all horsepower robbers. Let us know, Merry Christmas, Ol John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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Brandon

12-24-2002 07:16:14




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 Re: Re: one-wire alternator in reply to John T, 12-23-2002 15:37:10  
Thanks for the replies. I plan on putting a MSD box on it. Will the voltage from the alternator effect it any? Thanks

Brandon



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Steve - IN

12-24-2002 09:52:43




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 Re: Re: Re: one-wire alternator in reply to Brandon, 12-24-2002 07:16:14  
Brandon,

I think the MSD's are a bit over-rated unless your engine is turning warp speed RPM's at high dynamic compression ratios. The G motor probably doesn't qualify on either score. It would surely be helpful if you could beg, borrow or even rent some dyno time to actually measure the effects of things like an MSD, the drag of an alternator, or any other ideas you come up with.

But - another part of me realizes it's not really fun unless you can throw cubic dollars at any given problem. Someday when your testosterone levels subside, you can look at the chrome over pot metal trophies on the mantle and wonder what the he!! else you could have done with all the time and money you have wrapped up in those trophies. Then again, you'll have some great memories about what fun it was!

'til then, have yourself a Merry Christmas.

Steve

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John T

12-24-2002 09:22:59




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 Re: Re: Re: one-wire alternator in reply to Brandon, 12-24-2002 07:16:14  
Brandon, most of those MSD type units are set up for automotove alternator charging systems, so even if your battery voltage rises over 14 volts you should be in fine shape. If youre running an MSD Ignition, I guess youre gonna also use an after market such as an MSD High Performance Coil??? In order to discharge more spark energy across that plug gap (to take advantage of that MSD), you need to store more energy in the coil when shes conducting, and that means more current and/or a more efficient coil or that MSD's multiple discharge system. It can still supply multiple discharges even with a stock coil, but usually you put more energy into those high performance coils by adding current durign their conduction cycle. Good Luck and Merry Christmas. Ol John T

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Clooney

12-24-2002 07:29:26




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 Re: Re: Re: one-wire alternator in reply to Brandon, 12-24-2002 07:16:14  
Brandon, it won't effect the MSD control box but can effect coil output & spark duration slightly due to the alternator's higher appx. 14.2 volt charging voltage at a lower RPM. Most MSD setups are overkill on a stock engine so I doubt the difference will ever be noticed.



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