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3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP

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Joe Gubbrud

12-01-2002 07:47:38




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I have a 3010 that I have tried everything to solve problem: When I put in new spark plugs, it runs great for about 5 to 6 hours. Then it begins missing on random cylenders. The plugs will fire if I hold the plug wire so it gaps between the wire and plug. I have strong spark. Carb is leaned out. Do not use much oil. Overhaul about 500 hours ago. When I pull plugs they are covered with black soft carbon. I have increased gap (therefore heat), I have tried hot (NGK) plugs. Carb rebuilt. All cyclenders behave the same. Plugs look the same coming out. I assume carbon build up is so severe it insulates the plug from firing. Any Ideas will be greatly appreciated. Joe

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Ralph

12-01-2002 22:19:38




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
My experiences - - Back in '92 I had an '86 Cavalier, had to get in 2nd gear to make a hill on the freeway three weeks after a complete tune-up. I think GM was letting the Mexicans learn how to make plugs without help from Detroit. If I remember correctly, AC had recently moved a plant to Mexico. Earlier I had a '67 Chev 327, 10.5:1 compresion ratio which I burned lead-free only. In winter it would miss continuously after a 1/2 tank of __ gas. Sustained high speeds did not remedy, but a fill of Standard gas would clear the problem within 50 - 100 miles. When I sold it at 157,000 it would accelerate smoothly in high gear fromabout 15 mph with plugs that had 15,000 miles on them.

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HTR

12-01-2002 16:40:32




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
I, too, have worked on these things for hours, days , and years. The thing that gets to me is that only 90% of the 3010-20s, 4010-20s do this 10% will run year after year with no problem.

I don't know which carb you have. They used both Marvel and Zenith; one was about as bad as the other. Both brands use a vacuum actuated accelerator pump, that gave the engine a shot of gas every time the govenors moved the throttle disk toward open, and the vacuum dropped. I have seen tractors sit idleing, and start blowing black smoke from a pulsating acclerator pump. The way I checked this was take the carb apart and jam the piston with a match stick, that cured the smoke at idle, but would cough and back fire when you opened the throttle. This was on a zenith carb. There were some service bulletins and change overs, on the Marvel carbs, back in the early sixtys, to help this problem.

I have tried all types and brands of spark plugs including rim fire marine plugs that cost about seven dollars each; they all last about the same amount of hours. Years ago I called Champion spark plug company, and asked for the service department. I explained the situation, told him that I wasn't running his product down just wanted to know if he could help me. He told me that it was fuel fouling, it wasn't the plugs fault. He then asked if I understood the difference between a D14 and D23 plug and how to gap them. In a subtile way, he told me that I was an idiot. I responded that I understood heat ranges, ionization tracers, the difference between a spark and an arc. What I didn't understand was why the plugs only lasted about six hours. He said it was fuel fouling, end of conversation.

Electronic ignition and an high energy coil, along with the basic good wires, cap and rotor helps some. I have stretched springs,shimed springs and cut springs, trying to get the accelerator pump right. If you ever do get the carb right, they will run pretty good.

By the way, John Deere is not the only old engines that have fuel fouling problems.

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Matt

12-01-2002 12:29:33




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
If you find out whats wrong let me know, my 3010 is doing the same thing. Friday night I had to clean the plugs. 2 of the 4 where fine. I think its because it hasn't been warming up. And I was doing some ideling jobs. I too have had the carb off and replaced the cap,wires,points, etc. Run good for a few hours than start missing. Come spring I think I will replace the plugs, (has champion D14s in it) and replace the points again. Good tractor once it gets warmed up and is working hard. Course last time I was working it hard it kept flooding out, I turned down the load and it seemed to help some.

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Joe Gubbrud

12-01-2002 16:31:59




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 Re: Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Matt, 12-01-2002 12:29:33  
Thanks to all of you for your advice. The tractor sits on one of our feedwagons so it idols a lot and never gets much of a load. Lots of idol time during loading with short run time to run off feed. I think the ideas of warming up, type of plug wires, clear air intake etc. were great and I shall pursue asap. Will also check the others. Since we do not use for field work, it could be sucking lots of gas and we do not realize it due to short run time. Will post back results as I go. thanks again Joe

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Ryan

12-01-2002 11:50:51




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
We have 3010 on a loader that always fouled plugs. The short run times would never get the engine warmed up enough. We went to electronic ignition, leaned out the carb, and set up the idle. The faster idle speed is hard to get use to, but helped get the engine hot enough to burn of the carbon.



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G Taylor

12-01-2002 10:11:25




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
This ones well covered. Only other factors are to turn the manifold heat on and get the coolant temp up to 195F.



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Earl

12-01-2002 08:56:28




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
JOE/

Check for spark across the plugs to see if it has a big blue spark. See if the points are clean are not oxidized or burnt. Make sure you have good steel core wires not resistor type. Try replacing the condenser because if its not functioning you won't get a healthy spark. You could have a cap or rotor problem to go with the other problems. Look for air restrictions in the air cleaner or black smoke out the muffler. Post back to let me know what you have so I can advise you on further things to check. Earl

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Lee2

12-01-2002 08:31:12




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
Carbon build up is leaking away your spark. You're running way too rich for some reason, best look at that carb rebuild again.



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F-I-T

12-01-2002 08:25:58




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
Joe:

A few issues back, a fella in Green magazine told of how new Gen tractors without Precleaner stacks tended to get gook and crud in the under hood air intake above the air cleaner. He said he would pull the air in elbow off the carb, and if that fixed it, he'd lift the hood and clean that intake fitting with solvent.

Hope that helps !

Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855



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John T

12-01-2002 08:17:40




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
Joe, many of the common causes of plug fouling are excess raw unburned fuel like runnign the carb too rich or a partly closed choke butterfly or a restricted air cleaner, oil burning, too cold heat range of plug, or a weak spark. However, it sounds like you have already addressed many of those issues. Are you gettign any blue (oil) or black (excess fuel) out the stack??? What happens if you remove the air cleaner/pipe and let the carb get plenty of unrestricted air flow??? Can you see if the choke butterfly is opening wide??? With those questions, Im tryign to determine if your problem is restricted air flow or excess fuel like a closed choke butterfly or too high float level or other carb problems.

Next, (ignition problems) check the spark across the plugs and see if its a deep dark relatively thick blue spark??? If not, are the points clean, not oxidized or pitted or carboned up and gapped right??? Do you have wire core wires, not carbon suppressor types??? Are you sure youre running the correct plugs??? How long has it been that the condensor was replaced?? because if its not functioning (so long as not dead shorted out) you get a weaker spark. Pull the coil wire out of the distributor cap (other end still in coil) and place that removed plug end 1/8 inch away from frame steel and see what the spark looks like there??? If its good there but not as good out any plug wires themselves to frame, you may have a wire or cap or rotor problem.

If you have the right plugs and wire core wires and new plugs foul quickly and you have no air or choke restrictions or black exhaust smoke, I suspect the points, condensor, cap or rotor or coil even, but post back as to the color/quality of the spark (out of coil versus each plug wire to frame)and what the air and choke test questions above yield and I will advise further. Ol John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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Clooney

12-01-2002 08:02:40




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
Joe, Im not all that familiar with the 3010 so what I have to say is just general ignition system info gathered from other tractors.
~You might try a different condenser, if the condenser rating is wrong or the condenser is the wrong microfarad I have seen it causes a similar problem.
~The other thing to try is trimming .020"-.030" from the distributor rotor side contact. That will force the KV to build higher in the coil before it reaches the plugs & will be like holding the plug wire away from the plugs. The down side from doing this could be shorter cap & rotor life. Probably worth a try if nothing else works.
~Make sure you have solid core plug wires & NOT automobile TVRS carbon core wires..

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Lee

12-01-2002 08:01:16




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 Re: 3010 Sp. Plug Fouling mystery..HELP in reply to Joe Gubbrud, 12-01-2002 07:47:38  
You could have the timing retarded, or the carb float level may be way to high. In which case you would get carbon fouling, which sounds like what you have. This could also be cause by a float that is got a small hole in it and getting loaded with gas and not shutting off the gas at the level that it seems like the float is set at. That's what happen to me on a combine.



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