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How to check if the generator is charging?

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Bill G

11-30-2002 06:30:55




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Have a 1964 1010RUS. Recently got it back from the shop. Runs great! But after after a couple hours of running, it won't start. I checked the battery and it was reading ~11 volts. Recharged it and she runs fine. I tried to check the generator with a voltmeter but the voltage is all over the place. Is there something I am doing wrong? Or is the generator or regulator or both bad. I have a battery gauge that previously worked before going to the shop. Now it reads nothing. Thanks for your help.
Bill

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Clooney

11-30-2002 08:55:02




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 Re: How to check if the generator is charging? in reply to Bill G, 11-30-2002 06:30:55  
Bill, is the generator light working? If so is it on all the time or does it come with ign on & go out at higher RPM's?

~Due to the regulator placement on that 1010 you are going to have a hard time doing any tests at the regulator.

~What kind [type] of battery gage do you have on it & any idea what it is [was] wired into?

~What was done to the tractor when it was at the shop? Maybe something was left disconnected or installed incorrectly.

~Is the battery ground still positive or was it changed to negative at the shop or at some other time?

~On testing the generator..... install your voltmeter across the battery terminals [tractor not running] that will show battery voltage,,, then start the tractor & run at fast idle, [does it show higher battery voltage now ?} if not the generator isn't charging & getting to the battery.

~With the tractor running at fast idle, short the [F] post {smaller of the two} on the generator to the generator case, [does it show higher battery voltage now?... If so how much?... Is it over 14 volts?... If the battery voltage is now higher, you have a regulator problem or open in the field wire between the regulator & battery. If the battery voltage is still low leave the [F] post grounded & run a jumper wire from the [A] post on the generator to the starter battery post, or directly to the battery UN-grounded post. Is the battery voltage higher now & above 14 volts?... If so remove the [F] post ground & see if it settles out to around 13-14 volts,[if so your field control is working & you have a cut-out problem or open in the [gen-arm] wire from the generator to the voltage regulator, or open in the [battery] wire from the battery/starter to the [battery terminal] on the voltage regulator. If none of the above show a battery voltage over 13 volts you probably have a generator problem.

~Some of what is said above might not make any sense to you so do what you understand or feel comfortable with then post back with findings & questions.

~It's very possible that something was left disconnected when it was in the shop or was wired incorrectly at assembly time.

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John T

11-30-2002 07:23:26




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 Re: How to check if the generator is charging? in reply to Bill G, 11-30-2002 06:30:55  
Bill, myself or the clooney man or others should probably save a standard generic fit all answer to this, as its a common problem posed on this board. I will start with some basic theory type info and hope others will add to it. First, a bad battery can wreak havoc on any charging system, so you might check that using a load tester first. Second, the generator needs a good physical ground connection and the Voltage Regulator needs a good connection to the generators frame and the belt needs to be tight. Of course, it may be possible that the generator is putign out okay, but a short in the system is draining both the battery and the generators output. When not running, if you disconnect and reconnect the batterys ungrounded cable, is there a spark?? If so, post back because that may mean you have a short.

Now, if theres no shorts, the batery is fine, and the gen and VR are grounded and the belts tight and battery charged and okay, it should read 12.6 volts but, with the tractor at fast RPM, battery voltage should rise to around 13 to 14 volts or so IF the charging systyem is working. Even with no voltmeter, the lights should grow brighter as RPM is increased.

If the voltage doesn't rise and youre sure the battery and grounds are all okay, insure the VR's Bat terminal is actually getting to to the battery, because it cant ever charge if a wire is off or theres no connection between the Bat terminal on the VR and the battery itself, maybe through an ammeter if you have one. Place a test lamp on the Bat VR terminal, and it better indicate battery voltage at that point before you go further.

Now, if you have battery voltage at the VR Bat terminal and all grounds are okay and the battery is okay but she wont charge, its time to see if its a VR or generator problem. First, with the tractor running, ground out the Field terminal thats leadign out of the generator and see if she then charges. If so, the VR is bad or theres a missing connection or ground somewhere. If she still dont charge, leave that connected and then jump the Bat and Gen (or Arm) terminal on the VR together and see if she charges then. If so, the cutout relay portion in the VR is bad. If still no charge with Bat and Gen (or Arm) connected and field grounded and battery okay and Bat terminal on the VR is actually connected to battery, its lookign like a bad generator. A commoin problem is the brush hold down spring system is corroded and stuck and the brushes arent held tight against the commutator. Other problems are a grounded armature or worn brushes or open field windings. Also, you can remove the generators belt and unconnect the field and then apply battery voltage to the generators armature post to see if she turns (motors), and if she does and then if you ground the field she slows slightly, the generator is usually good. Have you polarized the system lately and has anythign been chamged as far as positive or negative ground???

The short answers are check for battery voltage at the Bat terminal on the VR, load test the battery, check for shorts, try shortign out the field and try shortign the bat and gen (or Arm) when running and post back.

Thers lots more that could be said to cover every possibility and tell you how to test for each, but this is a start for you. I am planning a two part series of articles in an upcoming Green Magazine issue(s) on this very subject, since its a little complicated to cover on this board. Happy Troubleshooting and let us know what happens. Ol John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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Bill G

12-01-2002 04:34:32




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 Re: Re: How to check if the generator is charging? in reply to John T, 11-30-2002 07:23:26  
Well I checked the wiring last night for disconnects. This is what I found:
The F post on the generator is connected to the VR on the top left post.
The A post on the generator is/should be connected to the VR on the bottom left post. (however it appears to be an open-infinite resistence)
The top middle post of the VR connects to the ignition switch and starter.

I think I can email you two a drawing to better explain if necessary.

My next question is, How should the VR be wired. I looked at it last night and there aren't any markings on it to tell me what each post is. There are three posts on the top and one post on the bottom. If it helps I am looking at the VR from the rear tires toward the front tires. Thanks again!

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Clooney

12-01-2002 05:44:39




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 Re: Re: Re: How to check if the generator is charging? in reply to Bill G, 12-01-2002 04:34:32  
Bill, I don't have a wire diagram of the 1010 so can't give you the VR terminal positions. Even if I could you could have a replacement VR & it might not be accurate.
~I know that regulator is a pain to get at but if you pull the wire retaining screws & U clips there might [should be] terminal markings stamped on the terminal tangs. Should look something like F, GEN, BAT.
~If you can't find anything marked you will probably have to pull the VR & look at the case, cover & bottom of the terminal tangs, it should be marked on there somewhere. ~If you give us the terminal markings we can guide you through the wiring of the VR. ~I haven't done much work on the 1010 so if you can find a wire diagram from somewhere it would be helpful as that generator light is wired in there also....

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BIll G

12-01-2002 15:17:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How to check if the generator is charging? in reply to Clooney, 12-01-2002 05:44:39  
Hi guys! Just wanted to let you know that the problem was the disconnect from the A post on the generator. I replaced it with a new wire and now it seems to be charging just fine. Thanks for all the info I saved it on to my computer for future reference.



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Clooney

12-01-2002 15:47:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How to check if the generator is charging? in reply to BIll G, 12-01-2002 15:17:17  
Bill, sure glad you are up & charging again.....



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Bill G

11-30-2002 15:39:27




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 Re: Re: How to check if the generator is charging? in reply to John T, 11-30-2002 07:23:26  
Wow! Thanks for the info you two! There is a lot there. I'll look at the charging tonight. I should let you know that the battery is brand new. A.k.a less than two months old. I will give the disconnected "something" theory a try first. The distributor cap and rotor were just replaced. (I hang my head in shame over that...but that is another story!) I'll post back later tonight or tomorrow.

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