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Help!:12 volt Ignition problem

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Bguy

11-24-2002 16:11:54




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OK, I looked through the archives and couldn't find any posts that addressed my specific situation so I'll start from scratch: I have a 430W that has been converted to negative ground 12 volt and it was starting and running fine (compression was low and it smoked a little). I installed new rings, rebuilt the head, etc, etc and then painted it. When I tried to start it I had no spark at the spark plug. I opened the distributor and the points have fire but I'm not sure how much voltage should be there. I don't know why this has happened because I didn't remove or take the ignition system apart. I did install a new JD distributor cap, new spark plugs and new copper core plug wires. (I did go back and check using the old wires.) Has something gotten fried while I was working on it? So where do I start looking?

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Ol John T

11-25-2002 05:35:34




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 Re: Help!:12 volt Ignition problem in reply to Bguy, 11-24-2002 16:11:54  
In additions to clooneys good recommendations, here are some additional thoughts to help you along. Just to be safe, when it was converted from 6 pos to 12 neg ground, was the coil re wired pos to ignition with neg to distributor?? Did you keep the existing 6 volt coil and add a series voltage dropping ballast resistor to reduce the coils input voltage to the proper 6 volts?? As clooney indicated, if you remove the cap and rotor (it doesnt make the coil fire, it just directs its output to the correct pluh at the correct time) and with the coil wire still in the coil but the opposite end (plug wire end) 1/8 from ground, cranking the tractor over (or closing and opening the points manually) should produce a spark, and all thats independant of any plug or cap or rotor problems. If that test dont make a spark and theres voltage at the coils input and the condensor isnt shorted and the points open and close, the coil could be bad. A test I use is to place a test lamp at the coils high input side, and with ignition on it should show battery voltage (or 6 if ballast used), then, place a test lamp on the coils low (distributor) side. When the points are open, you should have voltage present there, but when the points are closed, there shouldnt be voltage there (or very very low) because that point becomes dead ground through the points. Crank her over and a test lamp at coils low side should flash on and off, if she never flashes off, look a the condition of the points for corosion or carbon or pitting and insure the gap is proper allowing them to actually close. If a test lamp at coils low (distributor) side doesnt flash on and off when cranking, but you have voltage at the coils input, its probably a problem in the points. If the lamp does flash on and off there and the condensor is okay, it may be a bad coil. You might also check to insure the condensor itself or a wire on the points isnt shorted to ground somewhere, that could be a simple fix. Let us know. Ol John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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Bguy

11-26-2002 16:47:08




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 Re: Re: Help!:12 volt Ignition problem in reply to Ol John T, 11-25-2002 05:35:34  
John, That's a good tip about the test. I tried it and it indicated out that the points were not good. I replaced and adjusted these and she fired right up. Now, I think I need to install a resistor but I'm not sure which side of the distributor is belongs. Thank you for taking the time to help me.



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Bguy

11-25-2002 19:05:44




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 Re: Re: Help!:12 volt Ignition problem in reply to Ol John T, 11-25-2002 05:35:34  
Ol John T, I don't know how this thing is wired up, it had been switched to 12 volts when I got it. It does have 12 volts at the points and coil when the points are open. I performed your coil wire test and I got a weak looking spark. So I think I will install new points, coil and plugs and see what that does for me. I'll report back tomorrow night. Thanks.



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Clooney

11-24-2002 16:35:42




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 Re: Help!:12 volt Ignition problem in reply to Bguy, 11-24-2002 16:11:54  
Bguy, you should have 11-12 volts [presuming no ballast resistor] at the points [points open] & under .5 volts at the points stud [points closed]. If you have an added ballast resistor the open points voltage still should be over 11 depending on the impedance of your meter.
~If the points are working correctly & the cap is installed correctly & the rotor is on correctly it should spark if the coil is good. ~First try any old spark plug you have around & lay it on the block to see if you have spark. If so the new plugs are fouled [don't discount this as a problem as it happens a lot on the 40-430.
~Make sure the Positive side of the coil has 6 or 12 volts from the ign switch, [depending on if a ballast resistor is present & if the points are open or not], make sure the negative side is hooked to the dist & is under .5 volts points closed & the same as the positive side [points open].
~Take a plug wire & install it directly in the coil tower & lay the plug on the block then crank it, if the plug sparks then, your problem lies with the cap or rotor.
~Do the above & post back with further questions...

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Bguy

11-25-2002 18:57:10




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 Re: Re: Help!:12 volt Ignition problem in reply to Clooney, 11-24-2002 16:35:42  
Cloony, Tonight I checked and I had 12 volts at the points when they were open. I had 12 volts on both sides of the coil with the points open. I checked, cleaned and tightened everything down and I have a weak spark(white/yellow)now. I did not replace the points before because the tractor had been running OK before and they looked OK but I will replace them now. I might even put a new coil on now just to be sure I don't have a problem there. Tomorrow night I will install these new parts plus new plugs and see what I have then. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks

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Clooney

11-25-2002 20:06:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Help!:12 volt Ignition problem in reply to Bguy, 11-25-2002 18:57:10  
Bguy, you should measure the voltage at the ignition switch side of the coil with the points closed also. If 6-7 volts or so you have a resistor installed somewhere & will need a 6 volt coil, if you still have 12 volts or so with the points closed you will need a 12 volt internally resisted coil, or add a ballast resistor when installing a new 6 volt coil.
~If you have 12 volts & still have the 6 volt coil you probably have burnt points & possibly a fried coil...

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Bguy

11-26-2002 16:42:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Help!:12 volt Ignition problem in reply to Clooney, 11-25-2002 20:06:33  
Clooney, I think you nailed it, I have 12 volts all the time and my points got fried. I installed and adjusted new points and she fired right up. I bought an inline resistor (the one with the ceramic looking base) but I'm not sure which line to put it on. This is a 12 volt neg ground system now so does it go on the line from the switch to the coil or the coil to distributor side? Once again, thanks for your help.

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Clooney

11-26-2002 17:15:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Help!:12 volt Ignition problem in reply to Bguy, 11-26-2002 16:42:11  
Bguy, install it between the ign switch & the coil.



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