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Clooney-John T- Polarize update..

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Wayne in Tn.

11-23-2002 11:04:20




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The 2nd new VR came in this morining, installed it, polarized it, still have the 6v battery on. The 6 volter just would not turn it enough to start, rolled it off, now the system is charging, only about 10 amps.---If I turn on the lights, wide open throttle will just barely keep it off the minus side. The generator shop said my gen. was putting out 30 amps -- and also when I was checking everything before and grounded the F post: wide open throttle would send the amp gage to almost 30. Now, I am afraid to put the 8 volter back on, afraid it will screw up things??

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Clooney

11-24-2002 16:51:54




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 Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-23-2002 11:04:20  
Wayne, that high compression LP tractor was designed to be sold mostly in the south. You should expect it to crank & start harder in cold weather. Even when it cranks good it will start harder due to the LP.
~Get some more running hours on it then see if it cranks easier. If it's a little tight yet & add the higher compression to that & 6 volts will probably be a little lacking.
~I have a 450 CCA 4 year old battery in my 40-S & while it cranks over slow in below 20� ambient, it does start. If I was going to use that tractor much in colder weather I would convert it to 12 volt, probably with a 12 volt generator. ~When I used to use it for snow plowing I had a 12 volt generator on it with a 6 volt regulator set to 7.8 volts. That charged at idle & made the lights brighter & kept the battery up even if used for 1/2 hour or less at a time. A smaller pulley would probably have done the same thing but I had the 12 volt generator handy.

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Wayne in Tn. to Clooney

11-24-2002 16:59:20




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 Re: Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Clooney, 11-24-2002 16:51:54  
Thanks for the tips, Clooney. I will do as you said, work it some and get it broke in. Then I may try some of the alternatives, smaller pulley or back to the 8 volt or go to 12 volt. I sure did like the 8 volt, later I may try to get you and John T. to walk me through setting up the VR and Gen for 8 volts. I have kept the 8v battery. Also, this is my first LP and I am impressed with it.



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John T

11-24-2002 15:08:49




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 Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-23-2002 11:04:20  
Wayne, installing the 8 volter wont mess thngs up, buit I still say if you have a god heavy duty battery, 00 Gauge Cables, and a good starting motor, she ought to crank over fine. As far as the new VR, as long as shes shows a charge when your lights are on, I wouldnt worry about it. Its job is also to not overchargre, besides just charge, and thats why it doesnt put out as much current as when you dead ground the field as you stated. A dead grounded field is for conditions like when your battery is low, and thats not what you have in that new battery you just installed, so the new VR is probably OK. I wonder about the condition of that starting motor myself, take it to that shop and have them load test it. I would do that before I used the 8 volt battery and had to crank up that brand new VR. Ol John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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Wayne in Tn. to John T.

11-24-2002 16:02:26




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 Re: Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to John T, 11-24-2002 15:08:49  
John T. I do have 00-cables, but like I said the battery is only 450 CCA. I will have the starter tested. She has started since the weather warmed up lately. That means 65 degrees here, I'm sure I can just forget it when it gets below freezing. Thanks for all the help.



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Tractorboy

11-23-2002 16:14:52




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 Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-23-2002 11:04:20  
Wayne' I got a 40 Standard on 6 volt with pos ground and it starts well but that Bat. has to be up for it to act right. It will start right up but sometimes the starter will lock up and then I have to undo the set screw and push the starter back and bump it. Then we are back in business. The lights work well and all is well with the charging system now. My 2 cents worth cuz I had the same probs u did with mine .

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Wayne in Tn. to Tractorboy

11-23-2002 16:29:49




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 Re: Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Tractorboy, 11-23-2002 16:14:52  
Yes, I will quit my griping about 6v. I did have a little 40 standard last year, that was still all original and it started and ran like a little jewel, guess it had been taken good care of. Also in my area there is not much choice in 6v batterys. I have seen one from up north that was a Strongbox brand, it was a heavy looking 6v and would start one right up. Wonder where to get those?



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Henry J

11-23-2002 14:24:18




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 Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-23-2002 11:04:20  
Wayne

The way you described your charging system is a carbon copy of how the one on my 420 works. 6 Volt that is.



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Wayne in Tn. to Henry J.

11-23-2002 16:19:51




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 Re: Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Henry J, 11-23-2002 14:24:18  
Yeah, now I am rembering back when I was a kid, around 1955 to 1960. The 40 we had, hardly ever would crank without pushing it off. Also remember the amp gage hardly ever showed a charge and also remember the hammer that was kept handy to beat the bottom of the dash with to get the VR to work. And this was when the tractors were only 4 or 5 years old. You just can't beat a 12v system with an alt. but I really wanted to keep this one all original.

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G Taylor

11-23-2002 19:10:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Wayne in Tn. to Henry J., 11-23-2002 16:19:51  
We keep the engine,carb and ignition in tune on our 40. If it will turn over it will start, from the starter of off the crank. Suprised myself and everyone else how easy it starts with a 1/4 turn of the hand crank. Most tractors that won't start on 6V suffer low voltage due to high resistance cables and connection. Dropping the voltage while cranking from 5.9V to 4.2v cuts power in half.



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CPeter

11-23-2002 12:19:07




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 Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-23-2002 11:04:20  
About 30 years ago, my brother in law who ran a generator shop rebuilt my 40 generator and at that time he put on a 1/2" smaller pulley. What a difference that makes in the output, especially if you are not running the engine at top speed. I use my machine to plow snow with, often at night and now I can run my lights and keep the battery charged. BTW, my VR does not have the "L" connector. It is only an 3 wire unit so the ammeter registers all current to and from the battery and "0" means the generator is just keeping up with the load. I have since moved that generator to my 420U and again, I noticed how much better it charged.

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Clooney

11-23-2002 12:06:13




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 Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-23-2002 11:04:20  
Wayne, you really need a given load to see if the generator is charging what it's supposed to. If the battery is already charged all you will see on the ammeter is a low charge & whatever other load is on the battery side of the ammeter [probably nothing on the battery side on your 420]. Any load on the generator side of the ammeter must be taken off the top of the output. That is also the beauty of an [L] terminal equipped current controlled regulator, the basic load by-passes the field winding so it doesn't increase the battery charging rate & boil the water out.
~If your generator was tested at 30 amps [& it's the production generator], that probably would have been at well under 7 volts or even 6 volt output. When the output gets into the high 7's or even low 8's [that's probably your regulator setting now] the output will be lower & probably even closer to 20 amps at 7 volts [assuming an XXXX859 generator]. Take about 5 amps or so from that for the coil & you are left with 15 or so. That is why an alternator works so good if you have other loads like lots of lights or accessories].
~Given a new fully charged battery & a basic 20 amp generator 10 amps running at fast idle doesn't seem too bad..
~If you want to see what she's really doing, leave the lights on for about 1/2 hour then start it & run at fast idle. That will pretty well tell the story..... ...

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don cassese

11-23-2002 14:04:01




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 Re: Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Clooney, 11-23-2002 12:06:13  
thi is unrelated to this post, but thank you for the info on the clutch. without your help so far i would still ber trying to get her to start. a million thanks an happy thanksgiving



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Wayne in Tn.

11-23-2002 13:09:16




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 Re: Re: Clooney-John T- Polarize update.. in reply to Clooney, 11-23-2002 12:06:13  
Thanks to all for the help. At least it all is working now. The 6v has started it a couple of times today after the weather warmed up some, Will play with it some and then may try the 8 volt again.



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