Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Discussion Forum
:

420T Ignition Problem (Clooney)(long winded story)

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Robert

11-15-2002 18:14:49




Report to Moderator

I dont know if you remember ,but a few days back I'd ask some questions about distributor problem . I had the dist. rebuilt ,put it back in got everything set but it wouldnt fire the plugs,if you take them out and hold slightly away from their ground they'll fire. OK ,so I tried a direct line from battery (good and charged)no luck, I carried the whole shabang back to the rebuilder he puts it on his test machine,spins the shaft and it fires perfect.He suggest the same direct line hookup etc....I carry it home ,same problem,Ok here comes the punch line...if you spin the dist.shaft the correct way (as installed ,counterclockwise it WONT fire) but if you spin it backwards ,it fires the purtiest blue spark you every saw.I'm sure I'm missing some simple point ,but I just can figure this one out?? Could it have something to do with the spark advance mechanism?Any suggestions ,I've tried a different coil,made sure I had 12 volts to coil ,points ,plugs set proper wires in good shape,always the same , it wont fire unless you spin the dist. BACKWARDS. I'd sure appreciate any comments or insight into this ,i'm bout to pull what little hair i got out. Thanks a bunch Robert in La.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
John T Nordhoff

11-15-2002 21:33:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: 420T Ignition Problem (Clooney)(long winded story) in reply to Robert, 11-15-2002 18:14:49  
Robert, we have to get back to the basics to figure this out. First, even if you have no distributor cap installed, when the points close and current passes through the coil, but then they are opened interrupting the current flow, high voltage rises at the coils secondary until its high enough to jump a gap. That gap can be the rotor tip to cap terminal gap and/or the plug gap, so first try having the coils output wire (still hooked to coil but out of dist cap, just to within 1/8 inch from frame) separated from the frame about 1/8 inch and see if spining the distributor either way makes a difference. If she fires the same either way, then I sure like clooneys cap alignment theory, since that experiment is independant of any cap at all. If then you use the cap and install a plug wire to near the frame, but it now makes a difference as to direction, I would be taking a hard look at the condition of the cap and rotor. To be safe, I would try a fresh set of plugs also. Besides the orientation of the rotor to cap terminal, other things related to rotation direction giving a different spark could be the rise and fall rates of the cam. Since a semi fouled plug can fire if the voltage is allowed to rise very high instead of bleed off occurring through the fouling medium, a wide cap to rotor gap or misaligned cap to rotor gap (which can be changed depending on direction of rotation) might cause a plug to fire in one rotation direction but not the other. When the points are at highest cam, is when the rotor tip should be near the high voltage terminal. Let us know if the spark test you describe is the same using the cap versus just the coil wire to frame only (capless), and we should be able to narrow down the problem. If you have the August Green Magazine available, my longgggg winded ignition article may help. Good Luck, Ol John T Nordhoff

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Clooney

11-15-2002 18:52:49




Report to Moderator
 Re: 420T Ignition Problem (Clooney)(long winded story) in reply to Robert, 11-15-2002 18:14:49  
Robert, there could be a few things going on there. I presume you tried the new spark plugs? If not start there. That is the # one cause of having to hold the wires or plugs away from the block to get a spark]
~I'm purely guessing here but the reason you could be getting a nice blue spark by turning it backwards is that the points are opening on the trailing [closing] part of the point cam so the rotor isn't lining up with the cap contacts & that forces the spark KV to build to very high value before it can jump the large rotor to cap gap. When it builds that high it will even jump a fouled plug, or work with carbon core wires [they should be solid core steel or copper].
~I have found on the 40-430 that trimming some material off the rotor side contact can have a big effect on spark output & will go a long ways towards keeping the plugs from fouling. When you turn it backwards you are in effect doing the same thing as trimming the rotor contact to open the rotor to cap gap.
~Try new spark plugs, then if you still have the old rotor install that, some of the new replacements have a longer contact & that lowers the system KV to just enough to jump the plug gap & that allows the spark to bleed off slowly as it rises so it never gets high enough to actually jump the gap with any force.
~When you finally get it working post what you find..... ....

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy