Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Discussion Forum
:

Model 50, got a few questions

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
John Van Valken

11-10-2002 17:35:23




Report to Moderator

Hello all,

I finally got my old model 50 (gas) running again this weekend. Had a problem with the carb that turned out to be a plugged passage to the load screw.

The first thing I've noticed is that it seems to be running quite rich. The engine sounds okay but you can see dark exhaust and smell it. I've leaned out the two idle screws and have the load screw set to about 1 1/2 turns. Seems that if I run the load screw leaner that it fumbles when the engine takes a load. The radiator shutters are missing (I've got some on the way) and the temp never even reached 140. Do you suppose that I could lean it out a bit if it ran closer to 160?

There is LOTS of transmission noise in all gears whenever the clutch is engaged. I noticed the transmission oil looked a little milky. Certainly due for a change. I'm wondering if the power-trol oil leaked into the transmission? What kind of oil are people using in the power-trol? I thought about using hydraulic oil. Any recommendations for transmission oil for a noisy (probably worn) transmission?

I ran a compression test on the engine. 80 lbs on the left cylinder and around 100 lbs on the right side. Sound about right? I'm hearing a little valve tap on the left side so I'm going to try adjusting the valves to see if I get the left cylinder up closer to the right.

What are people using to measure engine speed on these two cylinders? I'm not looking for a permanent tach, just a test unit. I don't think the fast idle is reaching 1200. I've also noticed that the slow idle is pretty quick. Sounds like it runs about 1000 rpm. I've got the idle screw all the way out. I noticed that the throttle plate on one cylinder did not quite close all the way.

Where are people getting clutch parts? The dealer? My clutch has a LOT of play before it engages and a LOT of play before it "snaps out". I'm guessing I'll need to replace the clutch fork and other hardware.

Thanks for your advice!
John

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
John Van Valkenburgh

11-12-2002 00:48:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Model 50, got a few questions in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 11-10-2002 17:35:23  
Thanks for the suggestions guys. The tape and flouresent light idea is pretty novel.

John



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
G Taylor

11-12-2002 11:54:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Model 50, got a few questions in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 11-12-2002 00:48:43  
The flourescent lamp tach isn't easy. The pulley cover needs to be taped with three distinctive colours in the shape of "three peices of pie" triangles with the points at the covers middle dimple. It works in a pinch and is very accurate. Beware of whirling pulley and extention cord in the dark. A proper hand held tach is superior.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Kerry

11-11-2002 14:29:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Model 50, got a few questions in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 11-10-2002 17:35:23  
The other guys hit most of this stuff, but here are two things. First, if the oil is milky, it's probably because of water in the oil. Try draining it, most of the water will be in the bottom after it settles for a while, but milky oil doesn't lube too well so you probably shouldn't run it much like that. If there's just a little bit of water in it, running it might even get it hot enough to evaporate it out.

Here's a trick for the rpm thing that I learned from this board - put a strip of masking tape on the pully cover, then with the tractor running look at it with a flourescent light, either in the shop or one of those flourescent drop lights. The lights will flash at 60hz, so the tape should stop at 600 and 1200 rpm. There's more to it than that, and you can find other rpms with several pieces of tape, but that might get you started. If you can do a search of the archives, I'm sure you'll find a description of the procedure.

Put the tape on in a straight line from the center of the clutch cover to the outside. If you can't find more info, let me know and I'll look it up for you.

Kerry - whose 50LP has been giving great service for several years now!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
G-MAN

11-11-2002 13:58:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: Model 50, got a few questions in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 11-10-2002 17:35:23  
John, the milky color of the transmission lube is more than likely due to water mixed in - common on older tractors due to condensation and water seeping in various areas. For a tach, an auto parts store might have an inexpensive little analog unit that you could rest on the end of the pulley to read speed direct. Some of the higher-end timing lights have a digital tachometer read-out, and I have an inductive pick-up for my multi-meter that works pretty well, so you have several options there, depending on what you want to spend. Your compression is a little low, but being low probably isn't the biggest problem. Ideally, you don't want anymore than 10$ variance between cylinders, and your 20 psi difference is double that, so you may be looking at some repairs to the rings or valves, but check the valve lash first, just like you mentioned. That's the cheapest and easiest. You can also squirt oil into the cylinders to do a wet compression check, which will give you a better idea where the problem lies. If compression increase with oil in the holes, you're likely looking at worn rings and cylinder bore. If it stays constant, your problem is likely valve-related. Your 50 does have an advantage in that each cylinder basically has it's own carb, so you may be able to adjust it well enough that the difference in compression may not make a huge difference. As far as the throttle valves go, you may need to verify that the shaft isn't twisted somehow, although that probably isn't very likely. There is also some play between the holes in the butterflies and the screws through the shaft, so one valve may be off a little and not closing properly. That's easier to check on the bench, where you can tighten the screws and center the butterflies in both sides equally and make sure everything is okay. If the clutch seems to operate correctly except for the slop and snaps in firmly, look at the condition of the pivot pin and shaft bushing and the rod ends and pins on the linkage. They are likely quite worn out. I'm sure one of the other two guys mentioned that, so I'm probably just repeating them, but I couldn't remember for sure. My two cents and good luck with the "50".

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
G-MAN - 10% difference, not 10$ on comp, lol. - nt

11-11-2002 15:25:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Model 50, got a few questions in reply to G-MAN, 11-11-2002 13:58:08  
oops



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob K

11-11-2002 08:51:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Model 50, got a few questions in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 11-10-2002 17:35:23  
The first reduction gear in my 50 has always whined, even after I restored the tractor. If the 1st reduction gear whines, the tractor will whine in every gear. (Straight-toothed gears are just noisy that way.)

I use engine oil in my powr-trol as recommended in the service manual.

80W-140 GL1 oil in the transmission (~4.5 gal) and 1st reduction gear (1.5 qts).

The valves are noisy in mine, too, but they are correctly gapped (0.020" w/ engine hot).

The play in the clutch sounds more like worn linkages in the lever and rod, not in the clutch fork. My brother bored and rebushed the lever and resized the rod clevis and pin to remove a lot of the play in the lever.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tye

11-11-2002 06:02:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: Model 50, got a few questions in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 11-10-2002 17:35:23  
John,
Your compression should be around 118 pounds on both cylinders. You can get most clutch related parts from your local dealer.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy