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Help on common problem 40-S

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JOD

11-06-2002 16:07:07




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I have a 40Standard and occasionally have a problem common to other Deeres and other makes. The starter binds and the whole engine locks up. I know to fix it I pull starter and rock tractor or some people just rock theirs to break loose.

How can I fix this for prevention? Will it work to clean and lubricate the starter spiral and spring with graphite?




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Bus Driver

11-07-2002 17:03:20




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 Re: Help on common problem 40-S in reply to JOD, 11-06-2002 16:07:07  
Clooney is as sharp as anyone I have seen, but I am in this instance surprised that his method works. I have both green and red tractors and have experienced this problem with the red ones. Both use Delco starters with the same general design. On the red ones, the starter drive slings into the flywheel ring gear and eventually hits the ring gear teeth head on and flattens or even indents a few of them. If the stater drive hits the previously-formed indention, it jams tight. The fix for the red ones is to put the transmission in highest forward gear and push the tractor backward. The starter drive will release. Pulling it forward just jams it more completely- one of mine slid the rear wheels when towed and never came loose. I carry wrench and just loosen the starter flange enough to wiggle the starter, which clears the problem. Looks to me like the process for loosening the starter on the 40 is not so simple. Turning the flywheel backward with a pry bar of some type will also work. But turning the engine forward has not worked for me and I feared breaking something. New ring gear and starter drive will cure the problem for a long time.

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Clooney

11-08-2002 06:06:15




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 Re: Re: Help on common problem 40-S in reply to Bus Driver, 11-07-2002 17:03:20  
Bus Driver, the 40-420 is slightly different than your red ones. In most cases you can put those little tractors in high gear & pull the tires off of them & the starter won't release. As far a just unbolting the starter, it does unbolt easily but it actually sits in a machined hole & just because the retaining set screw is removed in most cases won't un-jamb without beating the starter half to death [once the starter jambs it jambs it in the mounting hole also.
~As far as turning it in the forward direction; while I haven't ever looked into the tractor bell housing with a stuck starter [the green paint blocks my X-ray vision] I "believe" the starter drive is climbing the ring gear teeth & jamming on top of one or more of the teeth due to the lack of good solid starter shaft support. I don't think it matters which way you turn the flywheel as all it seems to take to free the starter is enough flywheel movement to allow the starter drive to fall off the top of the ring gear tooth/teeth & become properly meshed. If it jambs on top of the flywheel teeth like I believe it�s just as far to go backwards as it is forwards. I have seen those starters jamb even with good flywheel ring gear teeth.

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Jod

11-09-2002 17:44:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Help on common problem 40-S in reply to Clooney, 11-08-2002 06:06:15  
I have enjoyed and learned from this discussion. My observations are: towing only skids the rear wheels. Violent rocking with several persons will release it but seems risky. In my case removing the set screw always has allowed the starter to slide free.(Maybe just lucky?) The teeth on my flywheel are OK. Clooney's explanation (climbing the teeth) seems reasonable for the 40 as the only thing holding the starter is the mounting hole and the set screw. This must be a problem recognized by JD as my 420 slant steer has two bolts holding the starter.

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Bus Driver

11-08-2002 16:42:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Help on common problem 40-S in reply to Clooney, 11-08-2002 06:06:15  
Good enough, thanks for the explanation. About 25 years ago, I had a 40U and had the starter rebuilt. The repairman convinced me to pay him to install a plate with a plain bearing at the drive end of the armature near the windings. His explanation was that the long unsupported shaft would deflect when cranking and the shaft was prone to break. The result was that the shaft now had three bearings. Seemed to work OK and seems also to address as much as possible the problem you described. Shame that this thread probably will be seen by few due to it moving away from page one.

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Clooney

11-09-2002 04:00:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Help on common problem 40-S in reply to Bus Driver, 11-08-2002 16:42:19  
Bus Driver, funny you should mention that extra support bearing. I believe Deere did offer a heavy duty starter for the 420-30 that had a 3rd [center] support bearing in it.



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Scott Williams

11-07-2002 08:59:03




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 Re: Help on common problem 40-S in reply to JOD, 11-06-2002 16:07:07  
Mine does that occasionally too. Usually take a big screw driver and move the flywheel just a little frees it right up.



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Tractorboy

11-06-2002 17:20:31




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 Re: Help on common problem 40-S in reply to JOD, 11-06-2002 16:07:07  
well, Beg my pardon as I was wrong I guess



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Clooney

11-06-2002 17:17:42




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 Re: Help on common problem 40-S in reply to JOD, 11-06-2002 16:07:07  
JOD, that does seem to be a problem on the 40-420.
~About all you can do is make sure the flywheel has good ring gear teeth, install a new starter drive, make sure the starter bushings are good, & linkage & fork are in good shape.
~I usually don't pull the starter when they lock up, I just insert the hand crank & use a lever on the crank, a little turn & the starter releases. [well usually]

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Tractorboy

11-06-2002 17:12:24




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 Re: Help on common problem 40-S in reply to JOD, 11-06-2002 16:07:07  
What you have is a shorted out starter rotor as sometimes it will stop on the post that is grounded . I got one too.



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