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Clooney, John T, anyone, 8
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volts??

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Wayne in Tn.

11-04-2002 12:11:38




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I am in the midst of restoring a 420-T-LP, I am keeping it the original 6v system, getting new wiring harness and battery cables from Agri-Services. I had my local parts store to order me an 8 volt battery----(why)?? Heard lots of advice that an 8v would start it better. Question: am I going to have to make any changes to the VR or generator, should I go back and get a 6v battery??




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CJDAve

11-05-2002 11:34:04




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 Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-04-2002 12:11:38  
Wayne..... we have been "the route" on this 8-Volt battery thing trying to get the fifties-era trucks to crank over when they were hot or real cold, and I can tell you the problems with the 8-Volt systems never quite cease. We finally abandoned our 8-Volt hybrids and went with the dual 6V battery setups where the batteries were momentarily hooked in series to crank on 12V and then they reverted to parallel for normal charging. Those 6-12 systems worked ten times better. Later on when I got a little smarter I learned how important it was to "sweep out the corners" on overall resistance; to run BIG cables and to connect the (-) directly to the starter housing, and look at each and every connection to be sure it has the most "footprint" possible.....in other words AREA OF CONTACT..... .not having a washer with a too-large hole on a terminal for example. THAT was the real answer and still is today on the slow-crankers. No matter if it is 6 volts or 60 thousand, the three things that must be there for the successful transfer of electric current are: CLEANLINESS, AREA, and CONTACT PRESSURE. If you do a good job of sweeping out the corners, chances are your 6V system will perform as expected.

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RAY

11-04-2002 20:52:55




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 Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-04-2002 12:11:38  
IN THE LONG RUN YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITH THE BEST 6 VOLT BATTERY YOU CAN BUY. I TRIED AN 8 VOLT, AND AM STRONGLY CONVINCED IF YOU MAINTAIN THE CHARGING SYSTEM AND KEEP THE TRACTOR TUNED UP YOU WILL HAVE LITTLE TROUBLE WITH STARTING. I'VE HAD MY 430 FOR OVER 20 YEARS AND WORK IT ON A REGULAR BASIS, AND HAVE LITTLE TROUBLE WITH IT STARTING. IN FACT I NORMALLY GET ABOUT 5 YEARS USE OUT OF A BATTERY.

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Ol John T Nordhoff

11-04-2002 15:46:11




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 Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-04-2002 12:11:38  
Wayne, if you go to an 8 volt battery, I suggest you take the Voltage Regulator to a real old fashioned generator repair shop and they can properly adjust the Voltage Regulator to charge an 8 volt battery. On the third brush adjustable generators, moving the third brush closer does increase field current, but thats not the same as the true voltage adjustemnt made inside the Voltage Regulator. Most are already adjusted to max charge anyway. However, if you do things right, you can save alot of expense plus keep her the original 6 volt system. In that case, I highly recommend first, the highest amp hour rated 6 volt battery that will physically fit in the battery compartment. i.e buy the biggest heaviest amp hour rated battery you can find. Next, use 00 Gauge starter and ground cables (or at least 0 Gauge), because 6 volt systems draw heavy current and you cant afford any voltage drop across the cables when you only have 6 volts to start with. Finally be sure the points, plugs, condensor and plug wires are in excellent condition. The 8 volt batetry does crank her faster, but the lights and points wont last near as long and I bet those batteries arent cheap either?? Good Luck, Ol John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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PeteNY

11-04-2002 14:46:02




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 Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-04-2002 12:11:38  
Wayne, Fortunately I haven't experienced any problems with an 8v system we have in a Farmall Super M, we sent the generator and regulator out to the rebuild shop, told them we wanted 8v, and it came back all adjusted properly. Dropped in the battery and it worked. Course she doesn't work anymore, just shows and pulls, but (knock on wood) no light or points problems. BUT, in the case of a 420, I would just stick with a 6v system, they work very well as long as you maintain them, and even a fresh 420 shouldn't be a problem in the compression dept. Deere was smarter about switching their big engines to 12v sooner. A fresh Super M will put strain on even the best kept 6v syatem. Pete

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Clooney

11-04-2002 12:39:46




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 Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-04-2002 12:11:38  
Wayne, I have mixed feelings on an 8 volt battery. They do start better & give more coil oomph. The down side is; lights [most 6 volt lights are 6 volts as opposed to 12 volt, most 12 volt are 12-14 volt so they can take 14.2 charging voltage];..& voltage regulation, you will have to set your VR up to around 8.9-9.5 volts & that isn't always that easy on a VR with current control; & point life, the higher charging voltage of around 9+ will drastically shorten point life due to higher coil current.
~Personally if I were going to make the change I would go with a 12 volt battery as the swap is easier [12 volt lights, ballast resistor, 12 volt regulator]

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Wayne in Tn.

11-04-2002 13:33:27




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 Re: Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Clooney, 11-04-2002 12:39:46  
Clooney, thanks for the info, I think I will just go with a 6v battery, maybe try to find a high CCA. I don't mind 12v systems, matter of fact I have a couple with it now, but this one is pretty special and I would like to keep it 6v. I have overhauled the engine, head reworked with new valves and guides, so it should crank ok. Also is an LP eaiser starting?



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Russ Smart

11-04-2002 15:30:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-04-2002 13:33:27  
On our JD M I just moved the third brush to increase the voltage



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Clooney

11-04-2002 15:54:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Russ Smart, 11-04-2002 15:30:47  
Russ you can do that with a cut-out type system like the "M", but that won't get the voltage required on a regulator controlled 420...



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Wayne in Tn.

11-04-2002 16:06:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Clooney, 11-04-2002 15:54:44  
Ok, now I think I will keep the 8v battery that I ordered. To answer John T's question, it was only about $50 from my local Carquest store. I do have an old gentleman in my area who still does some generator work at home. So I can take him the VR and Gen and he can adjust it all up, right?? Also does anyone know if an Lp should start better than gas? Seems as if it would, since it is already in a vapor form? Thanks to all, Wayne.

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Ol John T

11-04-2002 19:43:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-04-2002 16:06:29  
Yes, a good old fashioned generator man can adjust the Voltage Regulator so your so called 6 volt generator can charge an 8 volt battery (actually a generator doesnt know what its voltage is, its incresed by increasing the field current or turning faster), but as my post above along with clooneys comments suggest, you will have less life with the points and lite bulbs. Ol John T



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Clooney

11-04-2002 16:44:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Clooney, John T, anyone, 8 - volts?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 11-04-2002 16:06:29  
Wayne, I'm not that familiar with Deere's LP systems but on cars & trucks LP systems start harder than gasoline when it gets cold. They have rather poor throttle response when cold also.



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