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JD440 crawler electrical

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Pat Macheske

11-01-2002 14:23:22




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I bought a 440 crawler that is in excellent shape. The previous owner told me that it originally had a 6 system. The previous owner had problems with the electrical system and must have been too cheap to find out what was wrong or try ot fix it correctly. He hooked up a 12 volt battery by reversing the polarity and recharged it every so often as the machine sucked the power out of it. I can't understand how it works, but it does. Is it possible that the 440 has a Positive Grounded system rather than a Negative ground?

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Pat Macheske

11-08-2002 17:00:08




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 Re: JD440 crawler electrical in reply to Pat Macheske, 11-01-2002 14:23:22  
Thanks for all the good info. I think steamer hit the mark with the comment about only half of a 6 to 12 volt conversion being done. I appreciate the help. Mike Hanley mentioned having a CJ2A Willys which is quite a coincidence since I als own an oldie its a 55 CJ3B Willys. It was giving me electrical problems until I finally noticed that it the engine ran counter clockwise. The Alternator wouldn't work since the diodes wouldn't let the current flow backwards.

I plan to convert the 440 to 12 volt and complete the job. No point in hauling a battery around when I need to use it. Thanks again, Steamer, Rodney, Mike,Ol John and Tubba.

PM

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Steamer

11-05-2002 10:46:30




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 Re: JD440 crawler electrical in reply to Pat Macheske, 11-01-2002 14:23:22  
Hi,

440 gas machines were just like the 430 and 420 machines that preceded them: 6v positive ground.

440 diesel machines were 12v negative ground.

So, it depends on just which version you have. There were a more gas units made than diesel, and the gas units tended to last longer, so I suspect you have a gas unit.

It's not unusual to see the old 6v units converted to 12v and the polarity reversed so that an alternator can replace the generator. I have three old machines: an M, a 420 crawler and a 430 tractor the M and 420 are still original 6v, but the 430 was already converted when I bought it.

It sounds to me like someone perfomed half of a 12v conversion. Using a 12v battery, not swapping the polarity and forging any on-board charging at all....

Stan

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Rodney

11-02-2002 09:05:57




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 Re: JD440 crawler electrical in reply to Pat Macheske, 11-01-2002 14:23:22  
Pat. Are we talking gas or diesel here? There is a big difference in electrical systems including 6 or 12 volt.



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Ol John T Nordhoff

11-02-2002 08:20:49




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 Re: JD440 crawler electrical in reply to Pat Macheske, 11-01-2002 14:23:22  
Pat, whichever battery terminal is grounded now defines if it's positive of battery to ground (pos grnd) or negative of battery to ground (neg grnd). You can leave it as a 12 v. system regardless which way its wired, because the starting motor still turns the same direction. If you want to get her to charge and want to use like a Delco SI - 10 alternator, it needs to be negative ground. If youre going to use a generator, either will work as long as the system is wired and polarized properly. I have used many 6 volt generators at 12 volts simply by installing a new 12 volt Voltage Regulator and never had one go bad yet, even though a factory original 6 volt unit probably doesnt draw as much field current and you may overdrive it a bit. A DC generatior doesnt know what voltage its supposed to be, its increased basically by turning faster or increasign the field current. Thats the job of the Voltage Regulator. Let us know what you want to do and we can help you then. If you want to keep it original using a generator in lieu of an alternator, you can either get a 12 volter or do as I have done by changing the regulator only. You need to decide what polarity youre gonna use because if its been switched, the ammeter would read backwards and the coil should be wired so whatever grnd system you run, the coil is in the right polarity i.e. + to distributor if pos grnd and - to dist if neg grnd. Good Luck, Ol John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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MIKE HANLEY

11-01-2002 20:59:20




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 Re: JD440 crawler electrical in reply to Pat Macheske, 11-01-2002 14:23:22  
Frist I would make the call if it is a working tractor or a show tractor. Show tractor take back to factory spects. If a working, How much is working time. Then what is on the tractor now. A single wire alt will drain the battery over time. If used regularly you are OK. We have taken everything to 12 Volt Neg ground. We set up both our 730D, ( YES 730 Diesels electric start to 12 volt neg ground) our 630 gas, our 430C and our 1946 WILLIS CJ-2A JEEP all are wired the same with a single wire Alt with N ground 12 Volt. As is the car and the pickup. No matter what we are working on it is all wired the same. that way when son #2 or the grand kids are here, there is no dought no how granpa HAS THIS THING WIRED? I don't mean to confuse you but MOST alt are N ground 12 volt, But I know a guy that can make up a 6 volt POS ground alt. If going back to stock get a wiring Dia so that 5 years from now you can remember how it goes. If going to 12 V N groung make a note in the Op manual on what and when it was done. The basices are if the Alt is 12 V nev ground The - on the coil goes to the dist and the + goes to the dash. With battery the - grounded to the frame and the + goes to the starter. If 6 volt + ground, the + on the coil goes to the dist with the- going to the dash.. The + on the battery goes to the frame with the - to the starter. The starter can be eather 6 or 12 Volt. We converted the 430c starter to 12 volt, but the JEEP still has the 6 volt starter.

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MIKE HANLEY

11-01-2002 21:25:46




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 Re: Re: JD440 crawler electrical in reply to MIKE HANLEY, 11-01-2002 20:59:20  
Additional: When we wire ligths on flat top fenders, we run 3 wires. (12-2 with ground, what you woud buy to rewire a household lamp next to the couch) One for the inside ligths, one wire for the out side ligths, and one wire for a ground direct to the lights housings. On like the 430 Crawler, we run 2 wires. one to the lights and one to the light houseing for a ground. When we get to the dash, we ground the ground wire to the frame and the light wires to the switch as normal. We have found most light troubles in the ground when the fenders start rusting causeing poor ground between fenders, (or grill guard on the crawler) and the frame.

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tubba_JD420C_ny

11-01-2002 16:15:46




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 Re: JD440 crawler electrical in reply to Pat Macheske, 11-01-2002 14:23:22  
If it is like my 420, it has a positive ground system. Mine is 6-volt, and I just finished re-wiring it, replacing everything electrical except the starter which is in good shape. Some people convert them to 12-volt, installing an alternator, etc. The original starter will work OK on 12-volt, just dont crank it too long. I kept mine 6-volt, if everything is in good shape it starts and runs just fine on 6-volts. One thing, if you keep it 6-volt is make sure you use heavy enough battery cables. The 12-volt cables are skinnier than the 6-volt cables and they dont pass as much current to spin the starter properly.
Clooney, who posts here sometimes, is a whiz on electrical systems. Good luck, just my $0.02

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