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John Deere 300B Backhoe

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D. Key

10-23-2002 12:23:51




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After much injection pump trouble, I finally discovered that the pilot shaft was out of time with the cam/crank. Can anyone tell me how to get inside the front cover to put it back into correct time? Also, I think something is loose inside the cover because the shaft appears to have too much play, and no matter what I do, when it runs, the crankcase fills up with fuel (I've replaced those rubber seals 4 times). Everyone I talk to says it's not a lot of trouble to fix, but no one seems to want to do it, and I can't find a manual anywhere.

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JOHN

11-26-2003 07:03:00




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 Re: John Deere 300B Backhoe in reply to D. Key, 10-23-2002 12:23:51  
I NEED TUNE UP SPECS FOR JOHN DEER 300C AND FIRERING ORDER



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Gary Idleman

08-16-2005 21:15:07




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 Re: Re: John Deere 300B Backhoe in reply to JOHN, 11-26-2003 07:03:00  
order a teck manual from c. l. boyd in oklahona city oklahoma phone # 405-942-8000.The book cost 145.00.I had same problem had to have pump rebuilt cost 340.00



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Jonathan

10-24-2002 13:59:14




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 Re: John Deere 300B Backhoe in reply to D. Key, 10-23-2002 12:23:51  
If the seals are distorted when you remove the pump, then they are being flipped when you are installing it. Try the method that other guy wrote about...sounds like it will work...you can put some light grease on the seals to help out a bit...I usually get one portion started in and guide the remaining portion in with a right angle o-ring pick..Then when its almost in , you can "feel" all around the bore to see if it is in the proper position. Ususally when the engine is at TDC, the slot on the pump drive shaft is at approx. the 11 o'clock/5 o'clock position with the dot on the end of the shaft facing up. The gear itself has timing marks on it that are stamped for 3/6 cylinder engines and a seperate mark for 4 cylinder engines . (same gear used for many engines ). Also the shaft is keyed to the gear and retained with a nut. Never have seen it happen , but theres always the possibility of the key shearing off.. I would only think this was possible if the nut on the shaft were loose ... When a pump seizes, the shaft breaks... usually in the middle. You have it locked at TDC with the timing pin installed in the flywheel ??

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cannonball

10-24-2002 05:54:25




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 Re: John Deere 300B Backhoe in reply to D. Key, 10-23-2002 12:23:51  
the post below was right about checking booster pump...if you have to remove front cover in engine you have to remove front end starting right at engine..rad hoses hyd lines..electrical wires..a real job...have shop manual for 300b and have 300b..have parts manual also..if i can help e mail me..have nice day may god bless



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Jonathan

10-23-2002 14:29:17




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 Re: John Deere 300B Backhoe in reply to D. Key, 10-23-2002 12:23:51  
The gear drive for the injection pump is quite loose with the pump removed...the pump is the only thing that supports it. As far as the seals go...are they distorted when you remove the pump ??? Did you check the bore of the injection pump where they seat to see if there is a grove worn into it ??? If they were installed incorrectly it doesnt take long at all to wear a grove into the bore bushing of the pump. Another source of fuel is from the transfer pump...if the diaphragm is leaking it can go into the engine oil....To get at the gear for the pump, you have to remove the front cover of the engine...are you 100% sure the timing gear is not correct ???

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Denny Key

10-24-2002 05:54:53




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 Re: Re: John Deere 300B Backhoe in reply to Jonathan, 10-23-2002 14:29:17  
This all started when I installed a used injector pump on the tractor. It ran fine, but let fuel into the crankcase. I replaced the seals twice, then I began having the start and die problem. My diesel mechanic neighbor advised me to have the pump rebuilt, so I did. When I installed the pump, the tractor started and ran for maybe 5 minutes until I shut it off. I checked the oil, and it had diesel fuel in it. I removed the pump, replaced the seals (they are always distorted) and reinstalled the pump. I started the tractor, and it died immediately. It did this over and over. My neighbor came over again and told me it was out of time, so I started trying to find a way to get into the timing gears. When I couldn't, I put everything at tdc, removed the window on the pump, and could only see one of the timing marks. I removed the pump and inserted a screwdriver and turned the pump until the marks lined up, then compared the slot to the end of the pilot shaft and saw that there was no way for them to line up. I then drilled out the slotted holes on the pump so I could turn it farther, and installed it. Now the tractor runs, but will not throttle down, and I'm still getting fuel in the oil. This is why I thought maybe the pilot shaft was destroying the seals. There is no groove that I can see in the pump. Since all this started, I suppose the tractor has run for a total of no more than 30 minutes, and I've been fighting this thing in my spare time (usually 10 minutes at a time) for over a year.

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David Papworth

10-24-2002 07:55:18




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 Re: Re: Re: John Deere 300B Backhoe in reply to Denny Key, 10-24-2002 05:54:53  
I went through changing the shaft seals on my recently purchased 310D backhoe. Most of what I learned I got from the various ytmag boards, including the Deere and Case boards especially. Do a search on "shaft seals", "Stanadyne", "Roosamaster", and "diesel in crankcase".

I didn't tackle the actual job until I got the service manual, but it didn't add much more other than explaining the difference between the "retained shaft" and "non-retained shaft" pumps. None of the material makes completely clear the exact procedure for getting the pump back on without "flipping" the seals, so let me try to add my experience to the tribal lore.

I'll assume that your 300B has a Stanadyne or Roosamaster non-retained shaft pump. You remove
the pump by removing the fuel injection lines and the three retaining nuts. When you pull the pump off, the drive shaft stays with the engine. It is normal for the shaft to "flop around" in the timing case once the pump is removed.

If you are suffering from diesel in the crankcase, the usual cause is the rearward umbrella seal. It will have "flipped" or
rolled over on installation, and will appear
distorted. The forward seal should be fine, since it is supposed to face the opposite way -- wide end towards the timing case -- this is the easy direction for installation.

The rearward seal installs with the wide end facing towards the back of the engine. This causes it to "fight" the natural movement of installing the pump as you push the pump forward.
There is only a tiny bit of feedback that this is happening as you install the pump -- so it is easy to do it wrong every time.

Here's a method that worked for me. The dealer didn't have the seal compression tool. I went down to the local auto parts chain place and found that a fuel line hose disconnect tool for Ford products has a 7/8 inch setting that is almost an exact duplicate of the Deere tool, and costs the princely sum of $4.75.

Next, I loosened the clamps securing the injector lines and pushed them out of the way so that I would not be fighting them as I attempted to install the pump.

Next, I removed the undamaged front seal, reversed it, and installed it as a "practice" rear seal. Oil it up with a light coat of engine oil. (I figured if I could get the pump on and off a few times, without flipping the seal, with a used and hardened seal, I could reasonably expect to succeed with a set of new seals.)

Compress the seal onto the shaft with your tool, using your left hand. With your right hand, ease the injector pump onto the drive shaft. Push the injector pump on until it pushes the tool most of the way off the seal. At this point the tool is useless -- so remove it and drop on the floor.

The "moment of truth" comes just as the last of the rearward seal disappears inside the injector pump. As you try to push the pump further on, you will feel a slight resistance -- this is where the seal wants to flip over.

At this point -- STOP. Don't try to just shove the pump the rest of the way in. Instead, what you must do is to wiggle the pump very slightly up and down and left and right with your two hands, as you try to get the pump and seal to become perfectly coaxial with each other -- and the pump to move in further without just forcing the seal to roll over. The slight resistance to further inward motion that you feel will "pop loose" once you get everything aligned. It's very subtle and you won't be able to feel it if you are also fighting fuel injector lines that are interfering with the pump. Don't confuse this with the significantly higher force resulting from forcibly rolling the seal over.

If the brass sleeve inside the injector pump is not grooved, the pump should slide the rest of the way on with no problem and no resistance, and no further threats of "seal flipping". The forward seal takes care of itself, and you don't need the tool or any special procedure for it. Obviously, try to hold reasonable alignment with your hands and don't let the pump "cock over" on the shaft as you push it on.

Now remove the pump and see how you did. The pump should slide right off (without the resistance of a flipped seal). The seal should look just as it did when you installed it.

When you can do this several times in a row you are ready to try with a set of new seals from the dealer, with a reasonable expectation of success.

I was quite amazed when the backhoe started right up and the deplorable condition of "making oil" was found to be fixed. If I can do it, you can too.

Good luck!

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