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JD B still jumping for of 3rd gear

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JDJACK

08-25-2002 17:41:35




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I had just rebuilt the transmission in my 1948 B.
put all new bearing in, different transmission drive gear, new counter shaft idler gear, and counter shaft, detent springs( old gears had some broken teeth).
Well it sound alot better now. BUT I hooked it up to the disc and started discing, going good for awhile, just as I though that I had fixed the problem thud! The tractor quit moving, still in 3rd gear slot, moved out of 3rd and up to 5th engaged clutch, nothing, tried 6th nothing, tried 3rd again, nothing, tried to move level to right side of quadrient, won't move down from thrid gear
outer slot to bottom of channel. Hit shifter down with hand and went. put into 2nd gear, engaged clutch, and moved, shift back to 3rd engaged clutch and moves. Kept going, and same thing happened again. Said a few words. Unhooked disc and went home. I had installed all new detent spring and adjusted them good (or I think so). I am having a hard time figuring this out. Is this a problem with the overdrive yoke?
The shafts worn? I don't have a clue. If any can help please post back. Thanks JD JACK.

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ChuckW

08-26-2002 10:20:21




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 Re: JD B still jumping for of 3rd gear in reply to JDJACK, 08-25-2002 17:41:35  
that problem got so bad on the 520's that a gate locking shifter was added on the later models as this would happen when the tractor was roading with heavy equipment attached. This also can be retro fitted.



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ChuckW

08-25-2002 19:49:12




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 Re: JD B still jumping for of 3rd gear in reply to JDJACK, 08-25-2002 17:41:35  
have fixed about 1/2 dozen of these. The upper shaft wears in the working position which is generaly 1/3 gear. Then in a hard pull the strain works or squirts the gear out of position. The solution is a better condition top shaft then also install locking shifter. This was an upgrade for the 50's as this was a major problem. It actually locks the shifter in place to stop creeping. I may have one, the detent is a two piece spring loaded item. Lockes over the pin. If you want more details, look at the 50's parts manual.

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JD JACK

08-25-2002 19:57:19




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 Re: Re: JD B still jumping for of 3rd gear in reply to ChuckW, 08-25-2002 19:49:12  
Chuck, are you refering to the sliding gear shaft as the upper shaft? If it worked the gear out of position wouldn't it throw shift level out of groove? I will try to find a 50 parts manual to look at locking shift. Will it fit in this transmission?



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linc

08-25-2002 21:14:58




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 Re: Re: Re: JD B still jumping for of 3rd gear in reply to JD JACK, 08-25-2002 19:57:19  
no. I have a '48 B that jumps out of gear on the high side (3rd, 5th and 6th) all the time. The shifter lever will still be in the 3rd gear fork but the furthest forward shaft and forks will be out and slid over towards the flywheel side of the tractor. this happens quite often when the tractor comes out of a hard pull such as cresting a hill and going to level ground. Like I said the lever will still be in the correct fork but the the top sliding shaft will be out of position. I haven't taken the time to fix it but I make sure that I have a 9/16 wrench handy so that I can ppull up the pedestal and bump the shaft back into the correct position. This is how someone that is not a mechanical genius (me) copes with the problem. Let me know if you get it fixed. Good luck.

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Clooney

08-25-2002 17:55:43




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 Re: JD B still jumping for of 3rd gear in reply to JDJACK, 08-25-2002 17:41:35  
Jack, you have a problem in the overdrive part of your transmission.
~If the sliding gear shaft has good bearings & doesn't have a lot of lateral play your problem is either in the input shaft due to sloppy inner or outer bearings or if that is in good shape maybe not enough overdrive engagement due to detent adjustment, or wear on the gear or inner teeth of the input shaft.
~Try pulling the outer little cover on the outer input shaft bearing & see if the bearing is loose in the 1st reduction cover, if ok see if you can push the input shaft & bearing in very far, if so you might try adding a spacer between the bearing & shaft or bearing & cover.

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JD JACK

08-25-2002 19:03:00




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 Re: Re: JD B still jumping for of 3rd gear in reply to Clooney, 08-25-2002 17:55:43  
Clooney, all the bearings are new from JD. The input shaft is the transmission drive gear and shaft, right? How can i push on the shaft in if the nut is tight and the bearing is held in by 2 snap rings? How tight should that nut be on that shaft?
I believe that the teeth were in good shape on the drive shaft(this is a different drive shaft and still has same problem). How does this cause it to jump out of gear? Which shifter shaft controls engagement? IS underdrive, overdrive?
So the yokes and dimples in shaft shouldn't be a problem. I don't remember how tight i tightened up the nut on drive shaft. Tractor is not at my house at this time. Thankyou for you help on this. Greatly apperiacted.

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Clooney

08-26-2002 03:36:10




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 Re: Re: Re: JD B still jumping for of 3rd gear in reply to JD JACK, 08-25-2002 19:03:00  
~Jack, yes the input shaft is the "transmission drive gear and shaft". ~You can try to push the transmission drive gear and shaft in & out to see if there is much play between the bearings & snap rings. [in my original post I forgot the B uses 2 snap rings].
~Actually the shifter is called the underdrive shifter but I referred to it as the overdrive because your problem is in the overdrive side of it.
~I believe your problem lies in the overdrive [sliding shaft drive gear] not staying engaged with the [transmission drive gear and shaft]. If you don't have excess end play in either the transmission drive gear and shaft, or the sliding gear shaft look for wear on the sliding gear shaft drive gear internal teeth or the transmission drive gear and shaft outer teeth, or wear between the sliding gear shaft drive gear & sliding gear shaft splines . If that isn't the problem make sure the detent for the under/over drive shift rail is holding good & the sliding gear shaft drive gear is engaging all the way. [if only partially engaging it will walk out of engagement under load].
~Pull the trans cover & engage 3rd gear, then reach in & see if the sliding gear shaft drive gear is going fully engaged with the [transmission drive gear and shaft] if not adjust the shift rail [the very forward one] until you get full engagement.
~If you can't find anything out of spec & you are getting full engagement, try upping the spring pressure on the detent spring for the overdrive slot on front shift rail. Also make sure the detent notch in the front shift rail isn't worn & the under/over shift fork doesn't move too easy.
~If you still have problems, try locating a locking under/over drive shift fork/ rail assembly from a late 50 as it has a locking mechanism that will prevent the overdrive from walking out under load...

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JD JACK

08-25-2002 19:50:13




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 Re: Re: Re: JD B still jumping for of 3rd gear in reply to JD JACK, 08-25-2002 19:03:00  
Clooney, I have been studing the service manual. So what you are saying is that, since the shift lever doesn't pop out the slot, the 1st and 3rd and reverse sliding pinion(gear) is not moving out of alignment with countershaft first and third speed gear?
And there is something causing to much clearance between sliding gear shaft gear and transmission drive gear. Am I right so far? And the under drive shift yoke might have to be adjusted so it is closer to the transmission drive gear, or add spacers behind firdt reduction gear cover on drive shaft?

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Clooney

08-26-2002 03:47:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD B still jumping for of 3rd gear in reply to JD JACK, 08-25-2002 19:50:13  
Jack, you said "So what you are saying is that, since the shift lever doesn't pop out the slot, the 1st and 3rd and reverse sliding pinion(gear) is not moving out of alignment with countershaft first and third speed gear?".... Yes.
~"And there is something causing to much clearance between sliding gear shaft gear and transmission drive gear. Am I right so far?"....Possibly, or the detent is weak on the front [under/over drive shift rail] or you have gear to sliding shaft wear or the internal/external drive teeth are worn, or the under/over drive shifter is mis-adjusted...
~"And the under drive shift yoke might have to be adjusted so it is closer to the transmission drive gear, or add spacers behind first reduction gear cover on drive shaft?".... again, possibly, see above post..

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