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G and 70 parts swap????????

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James

08-06-2002 05:32:51




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Will pistons and rods out of a G fit my 70 gas?
Thanks, James




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G Taylor

08-08-2002 19:35:39




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 Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to James, 08-06-2002 05:32:51  
While I can't speak for the JD employees on the assembly line, we had fun & played a few games at Molson's Brewery. The Empty Bottle Inspector machine would toss out the non Molson bottles coming back recycling. We would search the bin for the same sized bottles and sneak pop, sasperila and other brands of beer bottles back into the filler line. I wonder how many people noticed brand "X" in with thier favorite ? In the mid 50's people could take a joke unlike today, maybe the guys on the line built an occassional "special" tractor?

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JDBert

08-07-2002 14:46:06




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 Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to James, 08-06-2002 05:32:51  
Thought while there was some 70' people looking at this post I'd jump in. My ? is what about part swaps between 70's and 720's or 730's? I've got a early 70 gas that needs all clutch parts from the crank out and a engine block. How bought differences between LP and gas Blocks? What parts are swapable? Thanks in advance



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Deere Jon 2000

08-06-2002 09:49:41




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 Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to James, 08-06-2002 05:32:51  
I'm not sure if they will fit or not, but there are two different sizes of pistons in the late model "G"s. The All-Fuel "G" had 412.5 cu.in., which is what a "G" is listed at. But there was a gas block & pistons that were 379.5 cu.in., the same as the gas "70". We found that out when we tried to replace our 1952 "G" pistons from a "G" that we parted out. It was then that found out that there were different blocks & pistons in them. The parts were original to both "G"s, so that how John Deere built them.

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G-MAN

08-06-2002 10:43:15




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 Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to Deere Jon 2000, 08-06-2002 09:49:41  
Did you hold onto the remains of the "G" that had the smaller engine in it? Sounds like an interesting conversation piece, as all "G"s were built as all-fuel tractors. In his Styled Letter Series book, J.R. Hobbs mentions a few "G"s that were apparently built to burn gasoline from the factory, due to the fact that the hoods were only punched for the fuel tank hole and not the gas tank hole. There was no mention of the style of blocks and pistons used. I believe JD offered higher compression pistons and cold manifolds aas part of a kit to convert "G"s to gasoline operation, but I've never heard of the different block. If it's possible to swap gas-burner and all-fuel parts in between "70"s, I would guess that it would also be possible to install a "70" gas block and pistons in a G, and I would assume that's what someone did to the tractor you have. It would be interesting to know some of the history of the tractor. You mention that the block was original to the tractor. How did you verify this? What cylinder head, manifold and carburetor were used on it? Perhaps one of the G/70/720/730 experts can weigh in on this subject.

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Deere Jon 2000

08-07-2002 10:39:23




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 Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to G-MAN, 08-06-2002 10:43:15  
Actually, it was the "G" with the smaller engine that we were trying to repair. We knew the original owner of this "G", we were the second owners. The tractor never was unloaded from the truck by the dealer. We saw when the JD dealer brought it in and had him deliever it then & there.
The original owner said he didn't order anything special when he bought it and the only thing he did was have it bored out .0090" when he overhauled it after about 15 years. So I guess it did have replacement pistons, but the original block. When we owned it, one of the piston skirts broke off at the oil ring, so we had to replace it. That's when we tried to put a piston in from the other "G" and found it was too big. We got a piston at a salvage yard to replace it, so I don't know if it was from a "G" or a "70". It has the standard fuel tanks, a large one for fuel and a small one for gas. It also has the standard "G" head, manifold, carb and petcocks. There are no extra holes for studs in the block.
The tractor is still running and is owned by my younger brother now since dad died. However, it's 670 miles away, so I can't check the casting #. Sorry about the long post, but I wanted to let you know that as far as I can tell John Deere made it this way.

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G-MAN

08-07-2002 13:36:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to Deere Jon 2000, 08-07-2002 10:39:23  
I'm certainly not going to sit here and say that you're wrong and I'm right when I don't know for sure, but I have a theory that you can read and decide if it might be correct. You mentioned that the original owner bored the engine .009". First, I'm assuming that you meant .090", which is one of the standard oversizes for replacement pistons. The other two common ones are .045" and .125". My theory is that the piston you got at the salvage yard is/was a .125" over piston, which obviously wouldn't fit in a .090" over cylinder bore, being .035" bigger. Standard "G" bore is 6.125", so a .125" over "G" piston would be 6.250 - 3/8 of an inch bigger than a standard 70 bore, and almost 1/4 inch bigger than a .090" over 70 bore. That's a pretty sizeable difference. The .125" over piston would only be .035" bigger than the .090" over piston. So if the piston looked like it came fairly close to the bore but not quite, rather than being way too big, I would bet that you were trying to install a .125" piston in a .090" bore. If you still have the piston laying around, carefully clean it up and look for .125 stamped in it somewhere, probably on the top, as they are usually marked in this manner. You could also measure it to check it's size. I suppose you could have your brother pull the head off the "G" and measure the bores, but he might not think much of that. You might have him check the casting number in the block. I'm betting that it's an F550R block, which is the standard styled "G" block. Sorry about the long post, but this thread got my curiousity up. I won't say for certain that the tractor isn't some kind of an oddball, but I think my theory is far more likely than Deere building a "G" with a smaller than standard bore and not at least having it recorded somewhere. It seems that that would be fraudulent, buying a 379 cubic inch tractor while thinking you were getting 412.5. The fact that everything else on the tractor appeared to be factory G seems to support my theory. But we may never know.....(without pulling the head, lol).

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Deere Jon 2000

08-07-2002 16:23:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to G-MAN, 08-07-2002 13:36:41  
Sorry about the extra .0, slip of the finger I guess. If you read my first post again, you'll see that the piston that was too big was from a "G" that we parted out, mainly because someone before us had put the flywheel on out-of-time and it was impossible to get it to run in balance again. I know that that "G" had standard pistons in it because we had overhauled it and used standard rings. Yes, I know about stamping.090 on the face of the pistons, that's how we knew the second "G" had oversized pistons, we didn't talk to the original owner about it until later. I do know that it was one of the last "G" made, actually bought after the "70"s were out. And that John Deere did make a few "funnies" at that time, like a "G" with a split-pedestal, so, maybe this is just an odd-ball

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Seamo

08-06-2002 17:52:16




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 Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to G-MAN, 08-06-2002 10:43:15  
The 70 Deere all fuel wasn't it offered with 6.1/8 bore and duplex carb(2 throat) and Single throat 6.1/8 bore like (G)??? I know some of the guys are running the Head and manifold, carb off 70 all fuel on there styled G's Does anyone have the casting #s for block and head on the 70 all fuel with duplex carb. Thank you. Earl in Illinois



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WTW

08-07-2002 07:56:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to Seamo, 08-06-2002 17:52:16  

Earl, The 70 all fuel had the same pistons, rods, valve and valve springs as the late "G" did. The block and Head on the all fuel 70 were unique (different than the 70 gas and "G"). The head was a duplex and had one less head bolt stud than the 70 gas but is the same bolt pattern as the "G". The all fuel block was longer than the 70 gas block but is the same length as the late "G" block. Both 70 blocks had two more mounting studs in the rear flange over the "G" but the remainder of stud holes were in the same location as the "G". The bottom holes in the 70 blocks that the frame bolted to were in a different location than the "G". I have seen several 70 all fuel heads on "G's" for tractor pulling and a few "G" blocks in 70's . Pretty hard to find one of these 70 all fuel heads or even tractors today!! Hope someone finds this of interest, Dave W.

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blksmok

08-06-2002 12:08:45




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 Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to G-MAN, 08-06-2002 10:43:15  
Parts numbers for reference:

JD70 Gas/LP cylinder----> AF3269R
JD70 All Fuel cylinder----> AF1655R
JD720 Gas/LP cylinder---> AF2879R



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G-MAN

08-06-2002 12:22:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to blksmok, 08-06-2002 12:08:45  
I looked up the respective part numbers between the 70 and G, and I know they're different - I don't think the 70s aren't going to have the petcock holes in the sides of the block (I've never been around a 70 - just a 60). My main question is whether a 70 block will physically bolt up to a G main case and vice versa. I assume the different variations of the 70 are going to use identical main cases, but is the block bolt pattern the same between a G and a 70? I hope he posts the part number of the smaller engine block that came out of the G, as that should clear everything up right away.

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WTW

08-06-2002 14:32:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to G-MAN, 08-06-2002 12:22:54  
G-MAN, The 70 block has two more studs in the block flange than the "G" did. The rest of the studs are in the same location between the "70" and the "G". I have put "G" Powerblocks in "70's". I just had to leave one stud out of each side of the 70 case. So with the 70 block in the "G" you would have two holes in the block with no studs for them. I hope you can get what I am saying. My point is: they could be swaped if one had his mind set to do that. Dave W

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G-MAN

08-06-2002 15:18:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to WTW, 08-06-2002 14:32:47  
I understand what you're saying completely. That's what I wanted to know, is if the bolt patterns were close enough to allow one to fit the other and vice versa. What's your take on the 379 cube engine in the G? Sounds like something somebody swapped in out of a 70 to me, but I guess we'll probably never know. If it were in fact that way from the factory, it sounds like it would be worth a pile of money to me. I'm assuming that any block that was put in a G at the factory would have the proper number of holes and no "extras". Very interesting thread regardless of how it came about.

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WTW

08-07-2002 07:31:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to G-MAN, 08-06-2002 15:18:48  
G-MAN The real tattle tale on what was and what wasn't would be the extra flange bolt holes or lack of. The other thing that I found that was different was the two bolts from the bottom of the frame to the bottom of the block. The bottom holes on the 70 blocks are closer to the engine crankcase than the "G". When I put the "G" block in the 70 I had to move these holes in the 70 frame forward to get them to align with the "G" engine block. Just a little more info, Dave W.

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Richard

08-06-2002 12:14:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: G and 70 parts swap???????? in reply to blksmok, 08-06-2002 12:08:45  
The cubes were less on the gas 70 as the horses were increased with revised intake ports and higher compression pistons.



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