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Governor Spring

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KrisA

07-24-2002 08:45:46




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I was just curious if one could still by a new governor spring. I just rebuilt my carb and the spring seems to be a little weak moving the throttle plate. I get full throttle or nothing when increasing but it does seem to back down ok. What do you think. Thanks for any help

KrisA




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Paul from MI

07-24-2002 19:00:31




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 Re: Governor Spring in reply to KrisA, 07-24-2002 08:45:46  
Kris,
I have been designing & making springs for over 38 years and I had to put my .02c in this discussion. First, assuming there is no obvious physical damage or breakage, flat springs like a John Deere governor springs don't get weak with age. If it's not very, very corroded or bent or cracked, it's as good as new. Using two springs effectively doubles the spring "rate" which is the increase in force for a given amount of deflection. This will make the governor more sensitive to throttle lever position, but probably won't make it open the carb significantly faster for a given drop in RPM. The difference would be in milliseconds in any case and that sure isn't going to win or lose any pulling contest with a rotating engine mass of 300 to 450#. Speed control via a governor is a balance of forces between the throttle spring and the centrifugal force of the weights/linkage in the governor. As the engine slows under load the centrifugal force is reduced, allowing the throttle spring to open the carb. If the speed of the engine increases due to reduced load, the centrifugal force of the governor weights overcomes the spring force of the throttle spring and closes the carb. The aforementioned spring "rate" is designed to neither over control the system which would cause "hunting" or unstable operation, or under control the system which would result in smooth, but sluggish response to speed changes. Most likely your problem is worn surfaces in the governor, sticking of linkage(I agree with Clooney on the cotter pin at the carb) or loose weights. Look inside the governor before you try anything with the spring. Hope this helps,
Paul

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KrisA

07-25-2002 06:49:01




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 Re: Re: Governor Spring in reply to Paul from MI, 07-24-2002 19:00:31  
This all happens when the tractor is NOT running.

First of all my throttle lever is really stubborn so I believe I need to lube that up a bit. However, when I give her WOT the throttle plate does not increase with the throttle lever being pushed forward, but rather when she gets to WOT she then snaps to wide open. I took the cotter pin out at the carb to make sure there was no problem there. When I back down the throttle she moves more steadily with the throttle movement but it is still a little sluggish. I am going to take the spring off and clean it up and make sure there are no cracks or anything of that nature. I have never rebuilt a governor so I am not sure what is envolved there but it would probably be worth doing. I am just looking for any help on this matter. I don't believe the throttle plate snapping occured before I rebuilt the carb. I know there is a little more tension there with new parts but it was not too tight that I thought anyway. Any other help is appreciated. You guys have done a great job so far and have given me a lot of ideas and help which are always of use. Thanks.
Kris

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Clooney

07-25-2002 08:39:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Governor Spring in reply to KrisA, 07-25-2002 06:49:01  
Kris, [engine off], remove the link at the governor arm that comes from the hand lever, then grab the governor lever & cycle the arm [with all the linkage to the carb hooked up]. It should cycle all the way from throttle plate closed to open with no hang ups or undue resistance. Actually most are smooth as silk. If it has tight spots or resistance find the friction point & remove or repair that. If the linkage cycles good [my guess is it won't] & smooth suspect the governor. The usual sign of a weak [uh, incorrectly functioning] spring is not getting WOT at the carb, yours seems to hang then snap to WOT so the spring is probably functioning enough to not be the problem.
~If you used little washers at the linkage to throttle plate arm suspect a problem there [sometimes they will cause a hang up].
~Did you center the throttle plate in the carb bore when you had the carb apart?..... ..

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KrisA

07-26-2002 03:27:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Governor Spring in reply to Clooney, 07-25-2002 08:39:45  
Clooney yes I believe I did center the throttle plate. I slide the plate in with no effort at all, turned the throttle rod so that I could install screws and proceeded to install the screws to hold the plate in. As for your suggestions about the throttle linkage I will have to try those when I get home (I am currently on the road) and I will report back what I find there. Once again thanks to all of everyones help. Hopefully we can get this nailed down. KrisA

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Cloonet

07-25-2002 03:40:16




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 Re: Re: Governor Spring in reply to Paul from MI, 07-24-2002 19:00:31  
Paul, those governor springs do get weak [well maybe weak isn�t the correct word, how about lack of the proper force at the proper time] in the old 2-cylinder Deere's & you gave us the reasons why;..."If it's not very, very corroded or bent or cracked, it's as good as new"...
~They do tend to crack at the mounting hole or around the bolt area.
~Moisture tends to get under the paint & pit the outer surface of the metal causing a decrease sectional thickness or even width, causing a loss of tension & or shape.
~Over 40+ years of use the spring at one time either gets pushed past the yield point or for some other reason looses it's original shape & while probably not loosing it's force per inch of deflection, looses it's ability to function within the travel furnished by the hand lever.
~This seems to be a bigger factor in the unstyled tractors where the governor spring is in the open elements more so than the styled where it is at least partially covered by the fuel tank. [Or maybe it�s an age thing]. ~I have replaced quite a few of those springs over the years due to lack of enough force to get WOT , I believe mainly due to rust pitting & the over use of a sandblaster causing a change of shape, & some due to cracking�.

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Clyde Scott

07-24-2002 09:23:20




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 Re: Governor Spring in reply to KrisA, 07-24-2002 08:45:46  
KrisA:
Yes you can still get the springs. I got a new one for a 1946 A about a month ago. Seems like it cost around $25 from my local JD Dealer.
Clyde Scott - Moultrie, GA.



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Clooney

07-24-2002 09:07:39




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 Re: Governor Spring in reply to KrisA, 07-24-2002 08:45:46  
Kris, I'm not sure, if you can't find new you could use 2 used springs back to back.
~Before scrapping the spring make sure you don't have anything binding in the linkage [pay close attention to the cotter pin that goes through the throttle rod at the carb top lever, those are notorious for hanging up on the carb casting]



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Mike Aylward

07-24-2002 10:59:40




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 Re: Re: Governor Spring in reply to Clooney, 07-24-2002 09:07:39  
Clooney, this is one area where I must repectfully disagree with you on using two governor springs together. This puts too much tension against the governor weights and effectively neutralizes the governor. People used to think this helped when pulling and would set their speed according to spec's and when the tractor pulled down there was no reserve because the springs had already been overtensioned and the throttle could not open because the governor weights were already being overrun. A good running tractor with a properly set governor will be very throttle responsive. Two springs are entirely unnecessary and in fact counterproductive. Most governor problems are caused by internal wear on pins and weights, flat spots on governor weights and/or arms, a broken or weakened spring or loose arm, dirt (another sermon on using good detergent oil) and improper adjustments. Mike

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Clooney

07-24-2002 11:14:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Governor Spring in reply to Mike Aylward, 07-24-2002 10:59:40  
Mike, I agree if both of the springs are new but if you have a spring that is too weak to function alone, a second used spring will work wonders.
~I'm not saying it is optimum, just saying it will work IF a new spring can't be found. ~Actually the best way is to just use about 3" of a second spring to help the tension on the weak original.
~2 new springs [would] be too much tension, 2 used & weak springs would be just about right, you just have to play with the second spring length to get good governor action....

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