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John Deere 60 Rod Bearings

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60Pete

07-10-2002 15:30:10




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Hi. I want to look at and maybe tighten or replace the piston rod bearings on my 60. I see there is an acess panel just to the rear of the crank located on top of the engine. Is this where I can get at them????
Thank you....




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G-MAN

07-10-2002 16:01:58




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 Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to 60Pete, 07-10-2002 15:30:10  
Yes Pete, that is where you access your connecting rod bearings. However, if the tractor has good oil pressure and is not knocking, there might not be much you can do, unless you want to remove and grind the crankshaft for undersized bearings. The bearings cannot be "tightened" up, as they are of the precision-insert type and have no shims. You can certainly pull the caps and plastigage the bearings, but this may not tell you much, as the rod journals do not wear evenly around their circumference, and they could be tighter or looser in another place. Deere used to offer .002" and .004" undersized bearings to service engines that were worn but didn't need the crankshaft ground, but I'm not sure if they're still available - maybe you could get them through as NOS parts somewhere.
Rod bearing clearance should be .001" to .004" and the rod-bolt torque should be 100 ft-lbs. I would strongly recommend getting the proper parts, service and operator's manuals for your tractor, as they will make any service work you perform much easier. Please read my post under Tractorboy's "patience" post, and good luck with your 60 - I own one myself and they are good tractors.

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60Pete

07-10-2002 17:26:56




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 Re: Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to G-MAN, 07-10-2002 16:01:58  
G-Man,
It is definitely knocking, but I have good oil pressure (sae30 oil)...someone once told me the bolts maybe loose...whats your take???
60Pete



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G-MAN

07-10-2002 17:58:49




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 Re: Re: Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to 60Pete, 07-10-2002 17:26:56  
You can sure go ahead and check the rod bearings just to be safe. I just wanted you to know that you might not be able to cure it without some major work. There are other things that can cause the knock. I would check the timing to verify that it's not detonation. I'd also be all for removing the flywheel cover and making sure the flywheel is tight on the crank. You'll also want to check the crank end-play and see that it's not excessive. Spec is .005" to .010", I believe. You control the endplay by the position of the flywheel on the crank, so if it's excessive, you'll have to take the bolts loose, and work the flywheel on farther. You may have to engage the clutch and have someone on the other side hold over on the crank while you work the flywheel on farther. Either that or put blocks between the belt pulley and the right rear tire. Get it set, tighten up the bolts good and tight, and draw the large nut back up tight against the flywheel. I would run the tractor some and tighten the bolts some more - you don't want them coming loose. Another possibility would be the clutch driver being loose on the crankshaft. If the flywheel is very loose and it looks like either it or the crank splines are damaged, or the clutch driver is loose, you're probably going to have to go a little deeper to solve your problem. I would recommend getting a service manual, as it will show you what you're dealing with to a greater degree than I can explain it in writing. Good luck with the 60.

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60Pete

07-10-2002 19:36:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to G-MAN, 07-10-2002 17:58:49  
GMAN,

Thanks for writing back..I have had the crank splines at the clutch driver built up and redressed. That took care of the drive disk banging back and forth with large slpine gaps. It is tight tight!!! Now that that noise is gone, I have detected more. With the clutch engaged, I used to hear (see) the slpine wear between the driver and crank. Thats fixed! But I detect something else in there that "feels" like something slapping or loose. I have been told the rod bearings get loose and can be tighten...you mean to tell me John D. put an access plate there, but it really doesn't do you any good just to look at the rod bearings...I thought the bolts could be backed out and a plastigage be used to get data to order new bearings. What are you saying about the rod bearings???

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Steve - IN

07-10-2002 23:27:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to 60Pete, 07-10-2002 19:36:45  
60Pete,

I think GMAN is giving you the straight skinny on the rod bearings. The journals don't wear evenly -- they may have gotten oblong-- so a plastigage measurement you do from the access panel may not be accurate. You could go with "fatter" rod bearings based on the plastic measurement, but you might cause more problems than you've fixed. I think the perfecto way to do it is to pull the crank and have the rods and the main journals redone -- after first making sure you can find new, thicker bearings to fit the redone, slimmer journals.

For a lot of years, I was on a clip of building 5 to 8 engines every winter. The school of engine building I went to said that loose bearings make more power. But then we were only building short blocks to last for few thousand miles or so. GMAN has given you a better ideas on how to rebuild it so it lasts. The other thought I can add is that in my experience, you should never, ever, never reuse rod bolts -- as they stretch, and can't be relied upon a for a 2nd go round. Main bolts, on the other hand, will generally outlast us and our kids.

You've said you have good oil pressure, so things can't be terrible in there -- but if you're sure it's not the flywheel, and feel the need to do something, pull the rod bearings and layer the undersides with a sheet or two of aluminium foil as a shim. Then use new rod bolts. Or, probably better, don't shim and only stick in new rod bolts then torque them down to spec (assuming you've looked at the bearings, and they're clean). Those cheap and quick fixes are the kind of thing I've had to do a few times at night - (before I really got the hang of building engines) - upside down with a lantern for light so I'd be patched together to run a 100 miles in the morning. For a long term; good fix, I'd go the route GMAN recommends.

I'm guessing from your name that you have a JD 60. I've got one too -- a '54 row crop -- so I'm on your side in hoping it keeps running well.

best of luck

Steve

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60Pete

07-11-2002 09:59:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to Steve - IN, 07-10-2002 23:27:58  
Steve,
Would the high/normal oil pressure be a clue as to not having rod bearing problems? No one has come right out and indicated that. Thats all thats there: rod bearings, main bearings on each end (clutch side has been replaced, what about the lifters....can they make just a ticking sound when there is wear, right? It sounds like a train when running...and really knocks hard when loading the engine down (like going up hill). I'll proably open up the panel and look at it today 07/11. Thanks for the input!!
Pete...

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G-MAN

07-11-2002 10:39:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to 60Pete, 07-11-2002 09:59:36  
Pete, if it's knocking more when under a load, that could be indicative of rod bearings or worn wrist pins and bushings. Like I posted earlier, I would also check the timing and verify that it is correct. The knock under load could be pinging/detonation/pre-ignition/spark knock - whatever you want to call it. Still having good oil pressure would suggest to me that your bearings are okay, but you don't really know until you check. It's real easy to check the timing, so I would start there. You don't even need a timing light at this point. Just loosen the distributor up some, scribe a couple marks so you an return it to it's present position, and try turning it a few degrees in each direction to see if it changes or eliminates the knock. You can also try removing the plug wire on each side to see if the knock goes away. If it's gone when it's only running on one cylinder, that will give you an indication of where your trouble might lie. Valvetrain wear is going to be more of a clattering sound than a knock, and you're going to have some valvetrain noise anyway, even if the lash is perfect. If you do decide to check the valve lash, make sure the engine is at full operating temp when you check/adjust the lash. By full operating temp I mean around 200 degrees or so, so you'll likely have to work it pretty good to heat everything thoroughly, and work fast to keep the parts from cooling down a lot before you get everything checked and adjusted. Valve lash should be .020" hot, and timing should be 20 degrees BTDC on gasoline engines, and 25 degrees BTDC on all-fuel engines.

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Steve - IN

07-11-2002 13:27:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to G-MAN, 07-11-2002 10:39:03  
Pete,

G-Man has pointed you in a good direction. The lazy guy's school of engine work says always check the easy stuff first. Timing is a lot easier to mess with than rod bearings or wrist pins.

Good oil pressure is an indication of good bearings, but it's not an absolute proof. If retarding the timing doesn't cure it; I suspect you'll be pulling that access cover.

Let us know how it turns out.

Steve

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G-MAN

07-11-2002 13:49:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to Steve - IN, 07-11-2002 13:27:16  
Lazy guy's school of engine work, huh? I prefer to call it the "Maximizing Productivity by Minimizing Labor Expenditure" program. Call or email and I will show you how for $199.95, or 4 easy payments of $59.95 (I strongly recommend the payment plan, lol). What do you think of that, Steve? I'm just having a little fun here, it's finally below 90 degrees here for the first time in a month, I think. YEEEHAAAWWWW!

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Steve - IN

07-11-2002 14:14:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to G-MAN, 07-11-2002 13:49:25  
G-Man,

Ha! You sound like Alan Greenspan with that economic doublespeak.

No offense, but I think the 199.95 would be better spent on a window air conditioner for the garage or barn, as it's likely to get hot again. Better check that interest rate on your time payment plan, too. You'll get your wrist pin slapped for usury in about 15 states!

take care,

Steve



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G-MAN

07-11-2002 18:35:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: John Deere 60 Rod Bearings in reply to Steve - IN, 07-11-2002 14:14:07  
And here I thought I was being pretty generous with my payment plan. Oh well, I guess I can always make a living fixing tractors or something, lol. As far as the A/C goes, I don't think $200 will buy a unit big enough to cool a 270' by 80' shop, as I do all my old tractor work (you know, the important stuff) here at the dealership. It sure would be nice to have this place air-conditioned - it had to have been over 100 in here the other day. Beats the heck out of fixing a power-unit in the middle of 7 foot high corn, though. I'll try to get my program costs refigured and get back to you. Later Steve.

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