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Big problem in 4020

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Blackdog

05-31-2002 12:57:27




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My 4020 will run if you use a battery charger. If you let it rev down past 1500rpm it will sputter slowly and die, the generator light will flicker too. When you turn it off it wont even turn over but the lights will work. So im gettin electric. I think its the generator but I wanted to see if anyone else knew before I go on a guess.
Any help appreciated
BD




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JD70Jim

06-01-2002 11:14:25




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 Re: big problem in 4020 in reply to Blackdog, 05-31-2002 12:57:27  
You say it'll sputter and die, under 1500rpm?

Diesels don't do that. Perhaps modern ones with a lot of electrical computer controls, but olderones like the 4020, once running, only require fuel---you can run them just fine with the electrical system switched off. This sounds like a GAS tractor. When the engine idles below 1500 rpm, the generator or the alternator(whatever it has) are not puttin out enough juice to run the electrical system or charge the battery. Hence, it will start with a jump from another battery or from a "booster", and as long as the engine is running fast enough, the generator/alternator is producing enough juice to power the the distributor and keep the engine running. Below 1500rpm, and with a weak/dead battery, it doesn't produce the necessary volts and amps and the engine dies.

Check the battery first, at someplace that provides load testing. If the battery checks out, check the belts on the Gen/Alt. If they are loose, tighten them. Next, I'd have the Gen/Alt TESTED, the same place that tested the battery can also do this. I'd also check the voltage regulator at the same time I had the rest tested.

Just my thoughts.

Good luck!

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G Taylor

06-01-2002 12:33:35




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 Re: Re: big problem in 4020 in reply to JD70Jim, 06-01-2002 11:14:25  
While the console 4020's had the electric diesel engine shut off, how were the early 4020's controlled? I'm guessing this is a early diesel with the 12/24V system and a generator. Blackdog, can you get the tractor serial number and the data off the generator/starter & type of batteries?



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JD70Jim

06-01-2002 14:02:21




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 Re: Re: Re: big problem in 4020 in reply to G Taylor , 06-01-2002 12:33:35  
My 1968 4020D has a mechanical fuel shut off. So does my 730D (1959) and the 2440 (1976). All of these tractors will run just fine with the electrical system switched OFF. Of course when you do that, the Generator or alternator don't charge the batteries, but the tractor will run just fine.

I suspect that in tractors FAR too new for me, the modern ones with computer controlled fuel systems and electronic governors just might have to have electricity to work. However, in at least the models I have, the fuel system is entirely mechanical---mechanical fuel pump included.

None of my diesels would be susceptable to cutting out at low rpms due to not having a sufficient electrical currant. However, my statement about a gasoline engine fits his symptoms---a generator that wasn't putting out a charge, coupled with a depleted battery would deprive the gasoline ignition system of the currant it needs to produce a spark, and of course the engine dies. Diesels are COMPRESSION ignition. No fuel will cause one to die, but not a lack of volts. That is why they require a fuel cut off mechanism to shut them down. You have to pull out the fuel stop knob to make them die, just switching off the key won't do it.

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G Taylor

06-01-2002 21:05:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: big problem in 4020 in reply to JD70Jim, 06-01-2002 14:02:21  
The 4020 I'm quoting is a 1971 console style equiped with the electric fuel solonoid and 12V electrical. Low voltage will stop that tractor dead. It's always been terribly slow cranking and poor starter compaired to my past brotherinlaw's older 24V 4020. Can't remember how it was shut off however. Mechanical fuel shut off is also used on our 2355 & 4050 plus of course the 70D,720D,80 & 435. Until Blackdog gets back to use with some accurate info we just guessing what he has. If it's a mechanical shut off diesel than the stalling likely due to fuel bleed off exceeding the pumping rate below 1500 rpm. I wonder how he's getting it started? Also wonder why it was parked for a few years?

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F-I-T

06-01-2002 14:41:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: big problem in 4020 in reply to JD70Jim, 06-01-2002 14:02:21  
I remember that our '64 4020D had a mechanical stop when you pulled the knob out on the end of the throttle. My little 855 has a fuel solenoid at the pump input that is used for stopping the engine. Simple, but effective. I wasn't aware that the console model 4020's had a fuel solenoid.

FWIW.

Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855



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G Taylor

06-01-2002 06:25:09




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 Re: big problem in 4020 in reply to Blackdog, 05-31-2002 12:57:27  
Gas,diesel, and what serial number range? has it been converted from the 12/24V system to 12V volt? How worn is the generator or alternator pulley & drive belt?



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Blackdog

06-01-2002 06:53:07




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 Re: Re: big problem in 4020 in reply to G Taylor , 06-01-2002 06:25:09  
I think its a 12/24v. Its a 1966 model. It isnt really worn . Hope this helps
BD



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G Taylor

06-01-2002 08:43:51




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 Re: Re: Re: big problem in 4020 in reply to Blackdog, 06-01-2002 06:53:07  
It's difficult to diagnos remotely. If any wear can be seen with the eye on the pulley or belt they are worn out. Overtightening the belt will ruin the bearings. Slippage can occur without audible squealing even when tight. The regulator's cutout should just cleanly open the contacts when the tractor is shut down. The voltage screw must be cranked to get 27.6 to 28.4 volts between the two battery posts. The small factory 24V ganerator can be upgraded to a high current unit for parade/puttering around duty by Kenneth at [email protected]
Classic Generator
4316 Dollar St.
Midlothian, TX. 76065
Phone: 817-473-1448 The 12V pos/12V neg/ 24V isolated system works well unless tinked or extra unbalanced loads have been added. Was the problem sudden, after some even or gradual?

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Blackdog

06-01-2002 11:11:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: big problem in 4020 in reply to G Taylor , 06-01-2002 08:43:51  
My grandpa and dad used it in the 60's-90's and let it sit for the last couple of years. I just got it started yesterday. I noticed it wouldnt idle. I dont see any wear but I hear a squealing and an not sure if it comes from the generator. Hope this helps
BD



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Rich in Pa.

05-31-2002 21:45:44




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 Re: big problem in 4020 in reply to Blackdog, 05-31-2002 12:57:27  
Boy, wish I could help you, but you at lease deserved a reply! I'm not an electrical expert
by any means. May it be a unit with the 24V start system and 12V run, to further complicate things?
Make sure each battery (isolated) has 12V, I know if one is low, the start sequence is almost non exhistant without a boost/charger hooked in with it. Just weard? The standard-poor terminal contact to battery posts, especially weak celled batteries (low voltage), is another shortcoming.
Batteries should have 11.5 to 12 Volt maintained
after the charger is disconnected for say 12 hours. If it's 11 volt, particularily 8 to 10 range, it's probably shot, assuming there's adequate acid level in all the cells.

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