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50-shaped piece of rust (engine)

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David H. Ransom

05-15-2002 10:08:42




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Clooney, do you have a diagram of how to attach the 2x4 to the flywheel?

If the engine did loosen up, would I notice? Would the kerosene in the cylinders hold the pistons unless both cylinders' valves were open?




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Deere Tom

05-15-2002 18:16:45




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 Re: 50-shaped piece of rust (engine) in reply to David H. Ransom, 05-15-2002 10:08:42  
Please do not pull to try to free up motor. I just bought a USB that some one distroyed the block,piston,rod,and gear in trans by trying to do it easy way. John Deeres are not hard to take apart,and we are here to help.



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G-MAN

05-16-2002 07:34:02




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 Re: Re: 50-shaped piece of rust (engine) in reply to Deere Tom, 05-15-2002 18:16:45  
You're absolutely right, Tom. When I mentioned that to him, I didn't intend for him to try it. I was just pointing out that it would be pretty hard for him to damage it by cranking on the flywheel or back wheel to try and free it up. I have seen tractors pulled to break them loose, and have yet to see a failure like you described - but there is a first time for everything.



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G-MAN

05-15-2002 10:53:30




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 Re: 50-shaped piece of rust (engine) in reply to David H. Ransom, 05-15-2002 10:08:42  
You will definitely notice when the engine loosens up. I'm assuming you filled the cylinders through the spark plug holes, so there is no way they can be completely full of kerosene. Therefore, you will get some travel of the pistons before the cylinders hydraulically lock. You might also drain the oil out of the engine and watch for kerosene running out of the drain hole, as the rings do not form a perfect seal. If you see kerosene coming out, you know it's penetrating the rust in the cylinders and travelling through to the crankcase.

Basically anything you can attach to the flywheel or pry on it with is going to help you work the engine back and forth to try and free it up. Keep in mind that if the cylinders are badly rusted, you may not get it freed up without removing the block and pressing out the pistons. If you're in a hurry to get this thing up and running, that might be your best option if it doesn't come loose after a few weeks of soaking. There are guys who let engines soak for weeks, months or even years to free them up, but they also have other projects to work on in the meantime. Usually any engine that is that badly stuck is going to require a bore job and new rings to get back into shape - unless you don't mind a little smoke and/or oil consumption or don't plan on running the tractor that much. I know you wanted Clooney to answer your post, but I've noticed sometimes he doesn't get time to reply til later in the evening, and it sounds like you may be working on your tractor now - so that's my two cents.

ps - you might try jacking one side of the tractor up and using the tire to try and bump the engine over - put the tractor in fifth or sixth gear and engage the clutch, then work the wheel back and forth. You can get pretty physical with it without worrying about damaging anything - some guys drag tractors behind other tractors and engage the clutch to try to free them up.

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David H. Ransom

05-15-2002 14:31:28




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 Re: Re: 50-shaped piece of rust (engine) in reply to G-MAN, 05-15-2002 10:53:30  
Taking the engine out doesn't sound like something someone as inexperienced as I am would have an easy time doing.

If you had a tractor that hadn't been run in 20 years, and the flywheel wouldn't budge, where would you expect to find the problem (was I right thinking it's the pistons)?

I guess time to think about pulling it behind another tractor is a few weeks away, but the David Brown 885 couldn't pull an International M, so I wouldn't expect it to pull the 50 very well.

By the way, I put some kerosene in the crankcase when I put it in the cylinders, but I didn't have enough to fill it.

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G-MAN

05-15-2002 15:33:29




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 Re: Re: Re: 50-shaped piece of rust (engine) in reply to David H. Ransom, 05-15-2002 14:31:28  
I would expect it to be the pistons - but it could be a stuck valve, bearing, governor, oil pump or nearly anything else you can think of. If the exhaust wasn't covered during all that time, expect the worst. Over 20 years you could also get a fair amount of water in the cylinders just through condensation. Like I posted earlier, you might be time ahead to go ahead and pull the head now and see what you've got. If you got your brakes apart, you can pull the head - these tractors are simple, and you're probably not going to damage anything further. Above all, if you intend to go into this tractor further - GET THE PROPER MANUALS! 90% of everything you are going to need to know will be in the parts, service and operator's manual. I know you're young and inexperienced, just as everyone was at one time, but looking things up in a book is far faster than posting on here and waiting for someone to reply. I've been turning wrenches full-time for 8 years, and I still grab a book, even for things I've done before, unless I am absolutely sure I know what I'm doing. You'll learn more from your mistakes than you will from the things you do properly. Get the books, get some tools (a set of combination box-end/open end wrenches, a 3/8 socket set, 1/2 drive socket set,
and a couple screw drivers will get you a long ways) and tear into that thing. These tractors were designed to be easily serviceable by farmers with a minimal amount of tools. Even if you find it's total junk and not salvageable, the experience will be worth it. Good luck with your tractor.

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David H. Ransom

05-15-2002 15:59:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 50-shaped piece of rust (engine) in reply to G-MAN, 05-15-2002 15:33:29  
The short stub of an exhaust pipe that goes to where the U-turn used to be has been covered for at least eight years with a metal can.

I checked the store part of YTMAG, and they wanted $80 for the book. Does that sound like the right price?



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G-MAN

05-15-2002 16:40:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 50-shaped piece of rust (engine) in reply to David H. Ransom, 05-15-2002 15:59:29  
That would probably be about right if it was a genuine JD service manual. However, you can get an I&T book manual which will have all the pertinent info and pictures/diagrams out of the JD manual for around $25. Go to your local Country General, Wheelers or whatever passes for a farm store where you live and they should be able to get it for you. It will probably cover several models, i.e. 40,50,60,70 etc so they are well worth the price. It won't have near the detail a real JD manual has, but all the specs, disassembly procedures, parts diagrams etc will be there. You should also invest in a operators manual and parts manual. The operators manual will show you all the controls, service info (oil change intervals, etc), tune-up data and of course tractor operation. The parts manual will be invaluable when scouring salvage yards looking for replacement parts and will be helpful when ordering parts from JD and other sources. Once you get your hands on the right info, anything you do on that tractor will seem ten times easier. Just hang in there and keep plugging away at it - no project will ever be completely snag-free. If you run into a major problem and need professional advice, move onto something else until you get it. That's the beauty of restoring a real basket case - you will seldom run out of things to do.

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Walt in Jaxn, Tn.

05-15-2002 21:00:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 50-shaped piece of rust (engine) in reply to G-MAN, 05-15-2002 16:40:53  
david, the i.t. manual is a jd-10, it covers the 50,60,70.i've got it and the john deere sm2010 (50 service manual) go to e-bay and type in john deere 50, and see what you get-----walt



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David H. Ransom

05-16-2002 00:03:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 50-shaped piece of rust (engine) in reply to Walt in Jaxn, Tn., 05-15-2002 21:00:12  
I searched e-bay, and found an original operator's manual, the I&T shop manual, and a John Deere 50 that hasn't run in seven years. Right now I'm up at 03.00 trying to delete a nasty Word 'macro' virus (and searching e-bay).



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Walt in Jaxn, Tn.

05-16-2002 15:46:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 50-shaped piece of rust (engine) in reply to David H. Ransom, 05-16-2002 00:03:41  
that's a cotton picker tractor, probably used to be under a tractor mounted picker. it also has a poor mans power steering motor mounted on the steering shaft at the steering wheel-----walt



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