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2 bangers dropped

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Just Admit It

04-13-2002 06:26:41




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I hear that the 2 cylinders were discontinued because the size would have to be so large to produce the horse power. My question is how much horse power does a 1010 produce? Why didn't JD use the 530 design instead? Answer : BECAUSE THEY WERE OBSOLETE 20 YEARS BEFORE! There is nothing wrong with you if you admit to such and you shouldn't have to see a shrink for it. So don't worry be happy!




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Farmall dropped!

04-15-2002 11:41:28




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 Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Just Admit It, 04-13-2002 06:26:41  
maybe you have been out to lunch since the early 1980's or did you realize that the line of farmalls was discontinued in favor of (of all things) Case! John Deere has been able to stay in business with out being bought up by something like Case! when you look at it it is obvious that deere dropped 2cyls to build a superior product.



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A Man

04-13-2002 21:08:21




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 Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Just Admit It, 04-13-2002 06:26:41  
Must be a oliver sore loser again trying to start something just a want to be an john deere get the chain and we will see who the best



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Ty

04-14-2002 07:19:08




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 Re: Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to A Man, 04-13-2002 21:08:21  
Hey as time changes everything changes. Look at today just about everything is electronic and push button digital display etc. Every year for the past 100 yrs has tractors gone up in HP. Now they have 400+ HP and rising. It is always changing and nobody can keep up with it. Todays changes are no different when 2cyl became 4-6. I have a 70D w/ps, lpto, I think it's the greatest thing made from that time. Look at the fuel economy as well!

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Bob

04-14-2002 05:24:25




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 Re: Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to A Man, 04-13-2002 21:08:21  
i think A MAN has had to much to drink.



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The Dukester

04-13-2002 20:47:07




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 Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Just Admit It, 04-13-2002 06:26:41  
When John Deere made the big changes in 1960 with the introduction of the New Generation tractors it was like the end of the world for many John Deere users. There were remarks that predicted the demise of the company and threats to never buy those humming, footclutched, front fuel tank things, blah, blah, etc. The two bangers may have run their course but they had a character(and still do) that endeared them to many people who used them, and they were still very competitive when you weigh up all the features the tractors had. The two bangers were still selling pretty darned good when they were phased out, 'ole John Deere wasn't losing out to the multi-cylindered crowd that bad yet. Seems to me that not long after that time some of the so-called advanced design tractor makers started having some serious financial problems that resulted in mergers and even the loss of their once respected names and organizations. Look at how much of that goes on today in Ag related businesses--kinda scary now, isn't it?

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mike

04-13-2002 18:22:37




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 Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Just Admit It, 04-13-2002 06:26:41  
everything old is new again. 2cyl. just took some time off. In the late 1980's JD sold a two-cylinder tractor the model 650. Not to mention most all of the lawn & garden tractors have two-cylinders.even the MTD CADETS



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Steven M

04-13-2002 16:53:18




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 Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Just Admit It, 04-13-2002 06:26:41  

Think about it. There are lots of things obsolete. The Two cylinder engine is not the first,and sure is not the last.

Lets take a look at some of them. Most if not all tractors had.

Belt pulley

Row crop front end

Oil bath air cleaner

Gasoline engine

All-fuel (Distillate) engine

Steel wheels

Hand crank

Pan seat

Transmission driven PTO

Hand clutch (John Deere was not the only tractor with a hand clutch,and John Deere was not the last to use the hand clutch.
Case or Minneapolis Moline used it last.

IH fast hitch, and TA

6 volt electrical system AC Snap-Coupler,and Power Director

Case-O-matic

Minneapolis Moline. Ampli-Torc

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RonMC

04-13-2002 15:40:59




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 Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Just Admit It, 04-13-2002 06:26:41  
Jeeeee z !!!! I thought my '48 "D" was still state-of-the-art ! Don't give me any more information I don't want to hear !



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Sound like someone had two too many bangs up the butt..

04-13-2002 08:42:31




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 Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Just Admit It, 04-13-2002 06:26:41  

smart guy



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don't play his game guys, he has no clue and is just trying to start something - he ain't worth it

04-13-2002 08:00:34




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 Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Just Admit It, 04-13-2002 06:26:41  
nt



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JD70Jim

04-13-2002 07:49:57




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 Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Just Admit It, 04-13-2002 06:26:41  
As regards to why didn't JD just keep the 530 instead of the 1010, they probably should have---the 1010 is regarded as a POS by all and sundry and the 530 was a great peice of engineering. However, getting more than 75 RELIABLE hp out of a two cylinder would have required much bigger engines than were in the already massive 830. Deere chose to go with 6 cylinder engines for the top of the line 4010 and 5010 tractors. In order to have the same type of engine as a "family" of engines---the 3010 4 cyl is the same as the 6 cyl 4010, only with two less cylinders. The 630 and 730 tractors---diesels especially were both superior to the perfortmance of the 3010. They were not more convenient to operate or more comfortable, but they could out work the 3010. The "Big" end of the tractor market was where all the action was going to be, and an 800 cid 2cyl tractor making 120 hp doesn't make much sense, does it?

Also, just because Deere had a long term investment in the two cylinder engine does not make the technology bad. Deere tractors had better hydraulics, better power steering, better operator features, were more durable, and were easier to operate. I will also drag out the ultimate boogyman for IHC people---the fuel economy of the 70/720/730 diesels could not be argued with nor did anyone come close (Cockshutt 560D is the only one and it wasn't a major player)

Care to talk about the obsolete features that Red tractors had during the same time period?

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Ohhh. I never said I liked red.

04-13-2002 11:27:32




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 Re: Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to JD70Jim, 04-13-2002 07:49:57  
But I am talking about 2 cylinder tractors and why they were discontinued. Not talking about other features that were available on them just about the 2 banger power plant. So in order to keep the theme of "Family" JD sacraficed the 2 lunger for the inferior 4 and 6. Is this what you might be saying or am I all wet again.

P.S. I'll not argue the fuel economy on the diesels or even the durability but the rest I might rank as hog wash.

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Phil Munson

04-13-2002 08:55:04




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 Re: Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to JD70Jim, 04-13-2002 07:49:57  
It was the obsolete features of the green tractors that led to the "new generation" of the sixties, sharing common design features with the rest of the industry; four and six cylinder upright engines, foot clutches, shift on the go, etc. I like my 2cyl putt putts. But, lets get a little bit real. The massive torque loads of drivelines at low RPMs (2 cyls) demanded massive gears and bearings; it had become cost ineffective.

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Ralph

04-13-2002 10:32:47




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 Re: Re: Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Phil Munson, 04-13-2002 08:55:04  
How many bull gears were replaced in those 2 bangers? I never heard of one. When I was a student at the UM late 50's early 60's the Mpls Trib carried ads for IHC bull gears in every Sun paper. In those days X had the tractor market, Y had the combine market, Z had the baler market. What happened?, they gave it to JD as a result of poor engineering.



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Phil Munson

04-14-2002 08:19:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Ralph, 04-13-2002 10:32:47  
I never suggested that 2 cyls had weak finals. It was the engines, huge main bearings to carry humongus flywheels, the cranks, and the reduction covers and gearing that flinched under all that torque. You may recall that one shortline company sold "powerblocks" for 2 cyls. They were withdrawn from the market because of causing driveline failures referenced above.

As to your comment about JD winning it all because of their engineering kindly note the following. If you are right about JD success coming from superior engineering, then why would JD, or any other company, go to outside or foreign manufacturers, as JD does, and purchase whole goods (small tractors) for resale?

I have a JD B, A, 720D, all late production; and like 'em great bunches! Also have my Dad's 1945 MD; Engine rebuilt acouple times in the last 50 years, driveline still orig. They are all special to me, but all just machines, built by humans, with imperfections and limitations.

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Yeah BUT!

04-13-2002 07:37:50




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 Re: 2 bangers dropped in reply to Just Admit It, 04-13-2002 06:26:41  
I went to a friends house last night and he cranked a good running 400 Farmall and his D Deere and a 50 Deere and if you had been there you would have seen which one got shut down the quickest.Sound and nostalga is what makes the deere so popular now,and they were durable,reliable horsepower and would run on just about anything you could pour in the tank then.On you hp question,it is supposed to be around 45 hp.

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