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Help 50 problem

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Steve Sorber

03-22-2002 19:19:53




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Hi I just put a 50 together bored 90 over and valve job. Some questions 1- only firing on one cyl. compression is 125 both cylinders vavles adjusted right and spark both cylinders. It seems like a gas problem. It seems like I am starving for gas , does the 2 jets behind the bowl have anything to do with this and what is the screw in the bottom of the bowl. thank you very much Steve




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Steve S

03-23-2002 16:48:39




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 Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Steve Sorber, 03-22-2002 19:19:53  
Thanks Clooney and guys Ok we still have problems but got it narrowed down. I need to get a rebuilt carb as the throttle shaft is also wiped out. The main problem was as Clooney said and was my point gap was set for the wrong setting (oops). No matter how I set the carb I still need to pull the choke out some to get it to fire on both. This carb is just worn out. Thank you Steve



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Clooney

03-23-2002 17:21:40




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 Re: Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Steve S, 03-23-2002 16:48:39  
Steve, that carb can be repaired. The throttle shaft & bushings are fairly cheap. ~ If you have already tried to work a wire in the idle orifices & that didn't do the job you will probably have to pull those pesky little balls from the idle passages to get the passages clean.
~I have tried many ways to get those **** little balls out & narrowed it down to either grinding the hole above the ball a little larger with a Dremel then welding little tails on the balls with a mig welder & small wire then using a pair of side cutters to pull them out, or heating those little balls dull red with a very small flame from a small tip on my acetylene torch then drilling them out after they cool. In either case that is a last resort & trying to clean those passages with carb clean & little wires (the throttle plates must be removed) is the first plan of attack.....

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Steve S

03-23-2002 17:55:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Clooney, 03-23-2002 17:21:40  
Clooney what does a rebuild kit contain as I will need the gaskets, fiber washers, needle vavle is a little rough also and the idle screws are all bent up as is the screw in the bottom of the bowl. Would the cost be reasonable compared to a rebuilt I seen on here for 249.00 I believe. If I drill out the balls can I get replacements. I have done these things before. Roughly the same idea on Cummins PT pump. Is there a place I can call for these parts that will know what I need. Thanks Steve

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Clooney

03-23-2002 18:29:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Steve S, 03-23-2002 17:55:56  
Steve, sometimes you are better off just getting what you need & not a kit. I never buy a kit, I always just buy what's needed.
~Roberts Carb is a good place to buy, see link below. Once you find what you need go to the home page for phone number.....



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Clooney

03-23-2002 04:50:17




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 Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Steve Sorber, 03-22-2002 19:19:53  
Steve, you didn't say which cylinder is not firing, or if it's a gas or multi-fuel engine? ~If it's the L/H cylinder not firing, make sure the heat valve in the exhaust manifold is turned to exactly either hot or cold & not in between those settings.
~Even though you have a spark you should try either swapping the plugs side to side or new plugs as sometimes a plug will show a spark but not fire under compression pressure.
~The 2 little "T" shaped screws are the idle mixture screws & are adjusted for idle mixture, try opening the screw on the non-firing side a little at a time to see if that effects the cylinder firing. Try an initial setting of 1-1/2 out from seated.
~The big screw in the middle is the metering adjusting screw (load adjusting) & only effects the higher throttle settings, it also effects both cylinders together, remove it & make sure the taper part of it is free to move slightly, if it is frozen, the metering will be un-even to both sides. Try an initial setting of 2-1/4 out from seated.
~You might try running with the choke 1/4-1/2 on to see if that helps, if so, you probably have a blockage in one of the carb passages & will have to remove & clean the carb passages. ~Try everything above & if the problem seems to be in the carb post back & we will try to talk you through a carb cleaning. Those Duplex carbs are very difficult to get the passages clean on & require some patience & carb knowledge to get working correctly.....

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Steve S

03-23-2002 05:31:20




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 Re: Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Clooney, 03-23-2002 04:50:17  
Cloony It is the right side not firing and I did the swap on the plug same thing tho. It is gasoline and I dont seem to see a heat control valve but there its an old rusted stud sticking out of the exh manifold on the left side. I dont seem like a valve tho. I had the tank off and cleaned the bowl there is an inline clear filter i replaced and as its running it empties out to just a trickle do you think it is starving for gas. I will take the carb off today and do a thorough cleaning and I need to make a bowl gasket or locate a rebuild kit. I am a diesel mechanic by trade and only fiddled with carbs as a kid but I think I can get a handle on it. the carb seems a little sad. The oil pressure I see dictates the flow of fuel is there a chance that my fuel is not fully getting turned on. And what is the best way to set the float and can this be a problem with my fuel supply. Thanks alot Steve

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Clooney

03-23-2002 06:20:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Steve S, 03-23-2002 05:31:20  
Steve, if the R/H side is the one not firing it probably isn't the heat valve causing the problem.
~If that stud is running vertical it is probably sticking out of the center of the valve & is supposed to have a steel band (kind of like a big oil gage retaining band)holding the valve in the up position. Once that valve rusts tight it will usually stay in place without the retaining band.
~Look closely to see if you see a H or C stamped on the manifold or HOT or COLD stamped into the side of the valve that sticks above the manifold.
~You must have good fuel flow & if the filter is running dry it must be found & repaired before doing anything else. Open the carb drain plug on the bottom of the carb & then unscrew the knurled knob on top of the strainer & hold it down, see if you are getting a good pencil sized stream of fuel from the carb drain for at least 30 seconds, if not find out why. If that checks out ok you still could have a problem with the oil pressure opening the valve when running (look inside the strainer with the tractor running & you should be able to see the valve in the opened position). There is also a screen in the fuel line inlet at the carb (the big plug near the inlet) & it must be clean for proper fuel flow.
~If the fuel flow checks out ok both running & not running you will have to pull the carb & try to work a small wire into the idle 1st, 2nd & 3rd idle orifices (in the throttle bore near the throttle plates), clean the bowl vent & try to clean the vertical fuel feed to the idle circuits. You should also pull the brass main nozzles & clean the little holes in the side of them. If you can't get it cleaned out with the little wire method you will have to pull those little hardened passage block-off balls & those will test your sanity. If it comes to having to remove those balls, post back for some ideas on how to remove them.
~On the float adjustment, with the carb removed, invert it & set the float level so the float is parallel with the bowl gasket surface.....

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Steve S

03-23-2002 12:22:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Clooney, 03-23-2002 06:20:38  
Ok I cleaned the carb all up and made sure all the orfices where clean. The fuel bowl is opening all the way and when I let it sit awhile she will fire in 2 for about 15 seconds and then the right side goes away I switched plugs and wires side to side and the same problem. I even hooked a gravity can to the carb and same. Right side plug does get wet with gas and maybe the cap is starting to crossfire I will get another one monday and try it. I am pulling what little hair I got left out but am I having fun lol.

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Clooney

03-23-2002 12:50:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Steve S, 03-23-2002 12:22:54  
Steve, try different point gaps. It could be your distributor cam is worn on one lobe more than the other or the bushings are starting to get worn.
~Try holding the plug wire away from the plug about 1/8" & see if you are losing spark on that side, or if that helps the firing of the cylinder look for other ignition problems.
~If the spark isn't blue suspect coil or cap problems. ~With the plug being wet it points to the ignition, but don't rule the carb out as they can be the cause of many hard to find problems on the old 2 cylinders.

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G Taylor

03-23-2002 09:13:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Clooney, 03-23-2002 06:20:38  
Steve was there an inline gas filter added between the glass sediment bowl & the carb? Some cause too much restriction on a gravity feed system.
There is a screen at the top of the sediment bowl as well. Odds are as Clooney pointed out, the tiny little carb idle passages.



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ChuckW

03-22-2002 20:22:51




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 Re: Help 50 problem in reply to Steve Sorber, 03-22-2002 19:19:53  
the 2 jets behind the bowl are idle mixture screws...since you have 90 over you are probably leening out some...better have a complete carb rebuild...



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