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After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ?

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Frank-in-Tallahassee

03-15-2002 18:23:09




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Popper Dick asked an interesting question below on how long one should keep break-in oil in the newly rebuilt engine.

I have a similar question. When I finish my 70 Diesel, I intend to run it a bit, look for and repair leaks, fuss with it here and there, and listen to it run. Problem is, other than driving it around the pasture, or pulling an almost meaningless implement, the old girl will not ever see much of a load.

I thought it would be a good idea to take it to my dealer who has a dyno, and let it spend some time running under load.

Question is, how much time is enough ? And how long do you let it just run in on it's own in your driveway before committing it to the dyno ? While on the dyno, what do you look for ? I supppose the usual: steady oil pressure, no leaks, good exhaust, no odd smells, bad noises, etc.

I'd really value some input here.

Oh, and BTW, it's gonna be 80 degrees here on Sunday.....

Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855

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G Taylor

03-15-2002 23:19:04




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 Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to Frank-in-Tallahassee, 03-15-2002 18:23:09  
Break-in primarily concerns the cam/lifters & the cylinder bore/rings. All the cam/lifters requires is enough rpm to ensure lots of oil supplied from splash or pumping depending on the engine design. Bore/ring seating depends on who you ask. A race engine bored & honed with a torqueplate, has round/true bores & careful honing is sealing tight after a few dozen miles & heating/cooling cycles. New GM performance engines are so well matched right off the assembly line they fill them with Mobil 1 synthetic as break-in oil. As an "oops" I put Mobil 1 in my day old 87 Grand National and it burned oil for the 1st 40,000 miles as the rings rarely touched the cylinder walls to get seated. On the other extreme, matching bore to rings in a tapered bore,worn pistons & just new rings after a "de-glazing" hone will never completely happen. We never had any troubles as long as the temp was kept up,slow idling was avoided and mixture kept lean to prevent fuel washing lube oil away. Your engine was built right, so break-in will be "brief". Know any farmers with a standby pto generator? The diesel with the heavier flywheel & faster 1125 rpm maynot flicker(much). Lots of pto hours for break-in but the rpm can't be varied as much as it should be.

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G-MAN

03-15-2002 22:06:30




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 Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to Frank-in-Tallahassee, 03-15-2002 18:23:09  
Hi Frank. When we overhaul engines or install a reman-select etc, we try to run the tractor a minimum of 5 hours on the dyno. I don't start at 50 hp on a 200 hp tractor, as that isn't even enough to warm it up good, but I'll pull it at 100 hp for a while, go up to 160 for 20 minutes or so, back down to 120, up to 150, you get the idea. After verifying that everything is okay in this manner, we'll usually run them at full load for 2 to 3 hours. I just don't think an hour is long enough - especially if you're never going to really work the tractor again. We run the 5 hours just to begin the break-in process, then it's up to the customer to continue it properly, i.e. - not letting the engine idle excessively, allowing it to cool down before shut-off etc. I guess it's up to you how long you want to run your tractor. If they'll let you run it an hour for free, that would be fine. But if it was mine, I'd offer to pay them something like $20 per hour to run it beyond that. We usually charge a flat fee of $25 to hook up to the dyno. That may sound steep, but dynos do wear out eventually, and it can be very expensive to rebuild the drum, etc. If you run your tractor for several hours, I think you'll see your hp gradually increase as parts wear in and friction decreases somewhat. It's amazing what the air temp and humidity can do for your power also. I've also seen a large-frame Deere tractor pick up 45 hp with just a fuel-filter change - the customer couldn't believe it. Just my 2 cents, but I hope I helped you some.

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Tony630

03-15-2002 19:12:42




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 Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to Frank-in-Tallahassee, 03-15-2002 18:23:09  
Frank,

First of all shame you're not in VA. I'd invite you right over.

There is a correct way to break-in engines on a dyno. John Deere has a specific way for each tractor(even ones sold today, must be dynoed before delivery!!!) I do it the following way. Please use this as a guide and ask your JD dealer for there recommended way.

Basically what I do is divide the advertised HP by 4 and come up with a factor - lets use 20HP. Start engine and for first 15 minutes run at 1/4 load (20 HP). Remember set high idle speed at exact rpm before loading on dyno to get accurate govenor operation. Then after 15 minutes remove load let run at High idle no load, then increase load gradually until next 1/4 (40 HP). Continue this process for a total of one hour (e.g. 60 HP 3rd 1/4 and max/full load at 540 rpm should come out at 80 HP, hopefully! Maybe more!!).

As you run the tractor you will notice the engine will pick up RPM's Just remember keep your HP Settings - Factor consistant. Don't try to increase load until the appropriate time.

Biggest key is pay attention to the gaugesmake sure the engine radiator is clean and allowing full air flow. MOST IF NOT ALL BLOW UPS ON A DYNO COME FROM LACK OF AIR FLOW TO KEEP RADIATOR AND ENGINE WATER COOL.

Any questions e-mail me.....

Tony - JD 630

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Tony630

03-15-2002 19:13:30




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 Re: Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to Tony630, 03-15-2002 19:12:42  
Sorry for the long post!!!

Tony



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Frank-in-Tallahassee

03-15-2002 19:39:09




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 Re: Re: Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to Tony630, 03-15-2002 19:13:30  
Sorry ?!? I need that kind of info !

Now, Tony, How long can I just mess around with it before I need to be serious about getting it on the dyno. I mean, in engine hours, if I have it around the place, run it, drive it, check it all out, it might get a bit of time on it before I get to the dealer, and since they're 25 miles away, I wanted everything to be in good, dependable, and safe operating shape before I take off on a trek like that.

I know some folks say that if you sissy them around you can glaze them up, but I've never seen that happen, but I've always been able to put an engine I've rebuilt to work...even a garden tractor Kohler.

So, say this 70D is rated at 52 hp (I think that's a good guess). Then 1/4 of that is 13 hp. So 15 min @ 13hp, 15 @ 26, 15@ 39, and finish it up at 52, or whatever is can hit while maintaining rated speed, right ?

Thanks for the info. We had our 4020 dynoed once, but I didn't have a chance to watch the procedure.

Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855

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old bones

03-15-2002 18:35:20




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 Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to Frank-in-Tallahassee, 03-15-2002 18:23:09  
how can y'all live in that heat this early in the year? a good friend of mine moved near kissimmee a year ago, and we're always calling each other with weather jabs. i just wish i could winter there, but like an old indian once said, wish in one hand and spit in the other- see which one gets full quicker.
about your 70, i'm curious, what did your dealer suggest? he probably has a pretty good idea. i always wondered if you could get a proper break-in by running on a dyno, and i guess i'll find out by reading the responses.

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F-I-T

03-15-2002 19:27:20




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 Re: Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to old bones, 03-15-2002 18:35:20  
Old Bones,

I asked the dealer if they had a dyno, and could I get an hour or so on it, and they said "Sure !".

The parts guys are all pretty young, and truth be known, I think they really do want to see an old one huffing on the dyno. You know, after they help you track down parts from all over, they feel a bit connected to it, too. One of them said, "Does that tractor have a PTO ? You need one for the dyno..."

I'll check with them and let you know. For now, I think Tony630 has me on the right track.

Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855

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F-I-T

03-15-2002 19:26:51




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 Re: Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to old bones, 03-15-2002 18:35:20  
Old Bones,

I asked the dealer if they had a dyno, and could I get an hour or so on it, and they said "Sure !".

The parts guys are all pretty young, and truth be known, I think they really do want to see an old one huffing on the dyno. You know, after they help you track down parts from all over, they feel a bit connected to it, too. One of them said, "Does that tractor have a PTO ? You need one for the dyno..."

I'll check with them and let you know. For now, I think Tony630 has me on the right track.

Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855

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JDGnut

03-16-2002 17:14:58




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 Re: Re: Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to F-I-T, 03-15-2002 19:26:51  
F I T.. I am intrested to see how your trip to the dealer goes, as far as running your tractor on the dyno... The dealer I worked for would not run a 2 cylinder on the there dyno.. I was told.. that it was because of the amount of dead time on the 2 cylinder.. (time without a power stroke.) The newer dynos that have electronic sensors for the water brake.. with the dead time the brake loads and unloads, and it gets into a pattern.. of on and off.. and it makes the dyno jump.. (again.. I this is what I was told, as I have always wanted to dyno mine tractors, but was told no..) The older dyno's will work great.. I hope it works.. I think I am going to try and get my tractor on the dyno one of these day.. (have to wait until no one is looking, I should have done it when I worked there.. lol..) Good luck
JDGnut

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Frank-in-Tallahassee

03-16-2002 18:32:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to JDGnut, 03-16-2002 17:14:58  
JDGnut:

The guys at this shop are so new at it, I don't think they would have even considered that condition !

I really think that this will be the first two cylinder one that thay will have seen. Each time I worked my way through a major system, I took a few parts for show and tell. They were shocked at the size of the pony heads, then shocked more by the pistons and rods.

I'll let you know how it works out.

Frank

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Ken Talatzko

03-16-2002 20:31:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to Frank-in-Tallahassee, 03-16-2002 18:32:19  
Frank,
If you go in there (on the dyno) with the intentions of just doing some break-in, nothing is going to happen to their dyno. I wouldn't try to make the Guiness Book of World Records with it. Besides,that big flywheel does a pretty good job of evening out the power strokes.



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JDGnut

03-16-2002 22:41:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: After rebuild, how much time on a dyno ? in reply to Ken Talatzko, 03-16-2002 20:31:51  
Yes.. I wasn't implying that it would hurt the dyno or the tractor.. It just makes the dyno buck and jump.. so becareful... JDGnut



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