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Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem

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Mr. J

03-06-2002 07:20:38




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We're working on a 1947 Model A JD here in the school shop and here's the problem with it. It runs very good and strong with one problem, IT VIBRATES VERY BADLY. We've tried advancing and retarding the timing but it hasn't helped. Was there ever a problem with crankshafts bending on these tractors? What about stretching rods, the tractor has been used farming for years and the owner's grandson says the tractor has been like this for as long as he can remember. Do these tractors have a harmonic balancer in them? If they do, would it be located between the clutch and crankshaft on the right side of the tractor? If that could be a problem, then we will tear into it. What would be the chain of action you guys would use to figure out the problem? The crank and rods appear to be in very good condition, but it's hard to see a bent crank or stretched rod. I've seen a lot of 2-bangers, but none have the vibration problem like this one does. The loose bolts and sheet metal on this tractor shake badly on this tractor. Help me help this tractor before it rattles itself to death. If you JD gurus could post some suggestions, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,

Jared Jeffries
FFA Advisor,
Jasper, MO High School

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A man

03-10-2002 06:43:13




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 Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Mr. J, 03-06-2002 07:20:38  
I glad you fix it good luck and have fun with your tractor



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Stan - Florida

03-07-2002 09:22:42




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 Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Mr. J, 03-06-2002 07:20:38  
This set of questions and answers really amplifies my belief in the integrity and helpfulness of the people on this board!!

Stan



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Mr. J

03-07-2002 09:34:47




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 Re: Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Stan - Florida, 03-07-2002 09:22:42  
Stan,

I couldn't agree with you more....Very well stated, it's nice to actually have a good use for the internet instead of all the bad things we hear about all day in the news.

Well....we all trudge on.

Jared Jeffries



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GWH

03-06-2002 19:07:27




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 Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Mr. J, 03-06-2002 07:20:38  
Mr Jeffries, See if someone in your area has a
copy of the I&T SHOP SERVICE manual JD4, this covers a lot generic repairs for most of the JD
letter series tractors. Paragraphs # 173-174 go
into procdures for R&R and OVERHAUL CLUTCH DISC,
you should also obtain a parts book JD #PC675 or
if your chapter plans to work on more 2cyl. tractors you may want the VINTAGE AGRICULTURAL
cd-#DB1293 available thru JOHN DEERE dealers, about $75.00. Paper parts books are from about $25.00 up each. The parts book is very valuable
reference for assembly,fastener size and type also you can cross reference casting-part numbers
many times incorrect parts are installed during
repairs and can lead to headache problems. Do you
know what serial number tractor your have? If you
can send me a fax # i'll try to send copys of the
2 I&T paragraphs. Also the I&T books were printed
in KANSAS CITY MO. Good luck George Hand P.S. We are also an FFA family

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Mr. J Finished Now

03-06-2002 17:37:44




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 Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Mr. J, 03-06-2002 07:20:38  
Well....we got the clutch disk and gear off, changed the alignment on it to 180 degrees away from the counterweight on the flywheel....and badda boom badda bing.....we started it up and the shake had stopped....It was a triumph for Jasper Ag. Class.

Thanks to all who helped on this project....everything that you said helped us in one way or another.



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Frank-in-Tallahassee

03-06-2002 18:03:58




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 Re: Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Mr. J Finished Now, 03-06-2002 17:37:44  
Mr. J:

Now you can punch those "V" marks back into the crank and driver, so the next guy won't have to work as hard as you and the students ! ;>)

Now that you 've got a good install to reference, the marks might be visible !

Frank-in-San-Francisco



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Todd

03-06-2002 10:07:43




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 Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Mr. J, 03-06-2002 07:20:38  
You are wasting your time adjusting timing, carb, as far as the vibration. Like Deere puller said, maybe the clutch drive disk is out, or even the flywheel is positioned wrong. Both have "V" marks on each side to properly align. You may have to look closely to see them. If the tractor idles poorly, that will not cause vibration. If you are unable to get a smooth idle, carb cleaning and rebuilding by yourself or a professional will be needed.

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RLArmstrong

03-06-2002 10:12:37




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 Re: Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Todd, 03-06-2002 10:07:43  
First of all your gonna get some vibs with a A series. How bad is the next question? Check the index marks on either end of the crank, if you think its gonna run a smooth as a 4cyl or a newer tractor your wrong. If its jump'en around the floor then flywheel Or clutch driver isn't in time. RLA



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Deere Puller

03-06-2002 07:48:56




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 Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Mr. J, 03-06-2002 07:20:38  
Most likely the clutch drive disk has been incorrectly installed on the crankshaft, creating the severe out-of-balance condition that you describe. When disassembling the clutch, the disk is indexed to the crank via a stamped "V" mark on both the cast disk and the crank itself. In other cases (can't remember if this applies to your situation) there is rivet that will need indexing, for which accomodations are made on the disk. If index marks are impossible to find, the ballasted portion of the drive disk is 180 degrees from the ballasted portion of the flywheel.

At times these drive disks can work loose and damage the splines on the crank, which requires either crank replacement or a build-up/shave down, along with a new cast drive disk.

Good Luck

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Mr. J With an Update

03-06-2002 11:45:18




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 Re: Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Deere Puller, 03-06-2002 07:48:56  
Well....we took the cover off of the clutch and this is what we noticed. The counterweight for the flywheel and the clutch are not at 180 degree angles from each other. Instead of being at 12:00 and 6:00 from each other, they are more like 12:00 and 2:00, so, we're going to get a gear puller, pull the clutch disk off and re-align the gear so the counterweights are at 180 degree angles to each other. I hope that this is the way that they are supposed to be assembled. I couldn't find anything in the I&T manual about that. All I could find is that the Clutch disk and the crank should have 2 V's and they should line up....This tractor doesn't have the 2 V's. So, we're gonna re-assemble the clutch at a right angle to the flywheel.

Thanks DeerePuller for the help,

Jared Jeffries

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Will P

03-06-2002 15:49:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Mr. J With an Update, 03-06-2002 11:45:18  
Don't use a gear puller. The disk has built in puller. Look for the two slots on the disk. Get two bolts with square nuts and put the nuts behind the disk and turn the bolts in. The disk will come right off.

Will P



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Mr. J

03-06-2002 17:32:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Will P, 03-06-2002 15:49:10  
OK.....we saw in the manual about how to use 2 half inch bolts do pull the disk off.....but we couldn't figure out how that worked....could you be more specific as how to do that??

I appreciate all the responses.

Jared Jeffries



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Will P

03-06-2002 20:33:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Mr. J, 03-06-2002 17:32:47  
The slots that are 180 degrees off of each other hold a square nut. As you screw the bolt into the nut. The bolt presses the disk off of the crank. Can't explain much better. Will email you a picture.

Will P



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Mr. J

03-06-2002 20:39:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Will P, 03-06-2002 20:33:36  
Will,

Now, that clears it up....I see where the square headed nut should fit in.....that would have made it much easier than us fiddlin with the gear puller. I appreciate it and I'll remember that in the future....our I&T manual didn't have clear enough instructions for us to use, you cleared it up very nicely.



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Mr. J With an Update

03-06-2002 09:43:24




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 Re: Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Deere Puller, 03-06-2002 07:48:56  
Well, we took the clutch cover and ring off and discovered that the counterweights for the clutch and the flywheel were NOT at 180 degree angles from each other. If the flywheel was at 12:00 the clutch counterweight would be at approximately 2:00. If I'm not mistaken the 2 counterweights should be at 12:00 and 6:00. We;re gonna try this and see if it helps. We adjusted the carb to no avail. Thanks for everyones help again,


Jared Jeffries

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Mr. J

03-06-2002 08:11:03




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 Re: Re: Help, 1947 Model A With Bad Vibration Problem in reply to Deere Puller, 03-06-2002 07:48:56  
We're going to try adjusting the carburetor today before looking at the clutch drive disk. Someone said the carburetor might need adjusting because the tractor idles poorly. We're gonna fire ot up one more time before tearing into it. Thanks for the fast post. And I'll keep you informed of the results.

Jared Jeffries



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