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Explain a resistor

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Mark

03-02-2002 19:04:26




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I can't figure out why we are getting the same voltage coming out of a resistor as we are putting in. Isn't a resistor supposed to reduce the voltage down before it goes into a distributor? Or does it act as a type of surge protector? Please excuse my ignorance of these electrical problems! But I need help, I've already fried one $120 coil, I don't want to do that again. I just need someone to explain the purpose of a resistor and how I can check to see if it is working properly. I would appreciate any help.

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buckeye al

03-04-2002 16:12:08




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 Re: explain a resistor in reply to Mark, 03-02-2002 19:04:26  
You ask why the voltage is the same comming out of the resistor as going in. This is becasue you do not have any current flowing through the resistor. The electricity can be hard to understand but it is in some cases easily compared to fluids running through hoses or pipes. I've gotten kinda wordy here but I hope this helps.

Consider having a 200' garden hose connected to a big bushing comming right out of your home's water storage tank. Visualize a gauge connected to each end of the hose, a gauge in the middle and a 1"ID ball valve on the far end of the hose. If the hose end valve is closed so that no water is flowing anywhere and your tank pressure is 50PSI, then both pressure gauges on the hose will also read 50PSI. The pressure is the same all along the hose from end to end & if you squeeze the hose you can feel that it is uniformly hard along its entire length. If you open the ball valve wide open, the pressure gauge at the end of the hose will fall to just a few pounds. That is because friction inside the hose the hose is resisting the flow of the water water through it. You still have almost 50 PSI at the tank and about half that on the gauge in the middle of the hose. If near the open ball valve you squeeze the hose a little bit, you'll feel that it's resistance to your crushing fingers is about the same as if it was empty & not connected to anything. The hose is no longer hard and ridgid near its open end. Near the tank however it is still just about as hard as it was with the valve closed. Close the valve or STOP THE FLOW and all the gauges will once again read the same pressure. The hose will again be uniformly hard.

Cut the hose down to just a hundred feet and you already know that you'll get more gallons per minute than through the 200 foot hose but the gauge at the end will still read not more than just a few pounds. You'll get more water in less time but still 50 PSI at the tank & just a few at the end. Friction again reduced the pressure readings but only when the fluid is flowing through the hose. Since we have less resistance (half as much hose) and we still have a difference of roughly 50 PSI pressure, we receive more gallons each minute.

If you throw the hose away and put that valve right on the tank, when you open it you'll have a tremendous flow of water per minute but still only a pressure difference of 50PSI! Less resistance, the same pressure but a lot more water per minute. In all cases it all evens out.

In a good non electronic ignition circuit with points open, you do not have any current flowing so the resistor is just like the garden hose with the valve closed. The voltage at both ends of the resistor is the same. When you allow current to flow through the resistor, only then will the voltage will be different from end to end.

When no current (water) flows, points open (valve closed), the voltage (water pressure) is the same throughout the system. When current (water) flows through a resistance, voltage (pressure) readings will differ thoughout the path of the circuit (length of the hose).

Now that I've said all this, I can't tell you if it is working properly because there are some oddities in some ignition systems. Wico distributors for example. In particular, those on pony motors and in the X series distributors. Post back what you have and somebody can give you more information. We're guessing maybe a pony becasue of the cost of your coil?

Hope this helps some.

Later.

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Mark- message for buckeye al

03-05-2002 06:44:33




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 Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to buckeye al, 03-04-2002 16:12:08  
Thanks especially for your help. I know that took a lot of time. The distributor I have is the infamous trouble maker Wico XB. I just can't seem to get a consistant spark. Have new coil, resistor, points, rotor & condensor. The guy I bought the internal resistor from said to put an extra porcelin resistor in the line before the juice gets to the distributor to help protect the coil. But wouldn't that reduce the voltage down too low under load?

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buckeye al

03-05-2002 16:19:04




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 Re: Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to Mark- message for buckeye al, 03-05-2002 06:44:33  
You mention a consisent spark.

Makes me wonder..... Are you having trouble with timing or spark wandering? Back in '68 my 51 B (was Dsd's then) ran but smoked a lot, would sometimes backfire through the breather, or let out a crack like a shotgun through the muffler. Simply would not idle smooth. Dad took it to our very fine Deere dealer asking that it get new rings and a valve job. Two days later it was back home, the XB was gone & a nice new Delco was in its place. Dad was MAD!!! Went to the Deere dealer intending to have a serious come to Jesus meetin' with them! Turned out all the trouble we were having was caused by bad bearings in the XB. Because the bearings were bad, the point break was unpredictable, inconsistent & it sparked just about whenever it felt like it. That tractor is now at my place with those same rings & valves still in it. If anything on the place will start it's the B.

How good are the bearings in your XB?

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buckeye al

03-05-2002 16:00:12




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 Re: Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to Mark- message for buckeye al, 03-05-2002 06:44:33  
The extra resistor might well be needed! Depends on what your battery voltage is. The coil and resistor you have are probably meant for a 6 volt system. If you're using the XB on a 6 volt system, you probably don't have any problem. If you're using it on a 12 volt system, then you will burn up the coil, the resistor or maybe even both without some extra resistance. Whatever you do, don't let the smoke out of the distributor!

I was once told that all things that either use, carry or make electricity are built with smoke inside them. If you don't treat them right the smoke will get out and once enough smoke gets out they don't work anymore! Don't let the smoke out!

Are you trying to use it on a 12 volt system?

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Mark

03-05-2002 16:25:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to buckeye al, 03-05-2002 16:00:12  
NO, it's just 6 volt, but what you mentioned about the bearings makes since. I would never have thought of that. I'll have to check that out. Thanks!



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Mark

03-05-2002 06:13:48




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 Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to buckeye al, 03-04-2002 16:12:08  
Thanks a lot to everybody for their help! It's much clearer now.



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POPPER DICK

03-04-2002 16:39:35




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 Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to buckeye al, 03-04-2002 16:12:08  
Bucheye,

Good job even as you say it is wordy. I am a little late posting this mesage. My electric shop teacher in 1954 used the very same example as yours to explain "R". I thought for a moment I was reading him. His name was Maurice Kopp. I thought a lot of that man.

Dick



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Jeff

03-03-2002 02:13:18




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 Re: explain a resistor in reply to Mark, 03-02-2002 19:04:26  
If you are still con-fused. Try ohm's Law, R=IE .



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MikeH-Tx

03-03-2002 12:44:59




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 Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to Jeff, 03-03-2002 02:13:18  
That will really confuse him, since Ohm's Law is E=IR, not R=IE.



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Jeff PA

03-04-2002 09:33:12




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 Re: Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to MikeH-Tx, 03-03-2002 12:44:59  
Or we could say that R=E/I. By the way R is resistance,Ohms, E=Voltage,Volts and I=Current,Amps. That is, if I remember my Eletrical Engineering Class correctly and that's a big if...



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Gpower

03-02-2002 19:46:52




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 Re: explain a resistor in reply to Mark, 03-02-2002 19:04:26  
Your tractor is set up to run off a 6 volt ignition system. Whenever you install a 12 volt battery, you have to install the resistor in the line that goes from your switch to the coil. This will allow only 6 volt when the tractor is RUNNING. If the tractor is off, you will have 12 volts on each side of the resistor, because you are not using any current, after the tractor is started, it consumes that current, thus your resistor will have 12 volts coming in, and 6 on the going out side. If that is not happening, than you need to replace the resistor. Some coils have an internal resistir and you will not need a external type resistor, it should tell you on the coil. Anyhow, hope this helps. Good luck, Gpower

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old bones

03-02-2002 20:05:00




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 Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to Gpower, 03-02-2002 19:46:52  
if he needs to check his resistor, can he hook the wire that goes to the coil to a 12v light temporarily to check the resistor? if that would work, he can check it without worrying about ruining another coil. just a thought.



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Gpower

03-02-2002 20:20:48




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 Re: Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to old bones, 03-02-2002 20:05:00  
Yes you could do that, but it will still burn even at 5,6,8 etc volts, just will not be as bright at the lower voltages. Another thing I just thought about, I do not know if you have a negative ground system or a postive ground system, but that will make a difference in the way that you hook up the coil. The coil will still work either way you hook it up, but it will be about 8-10,000 volts less if not hooked up properly, and will eventually burn up the coil, as it uses the secondary windings first, then the primary...opposite of how it is supposed to work. Just be sure your polarity is correct. Good Luck
Gpower

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Clooney

03-02-2002 20:16:55




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 Re: Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to old bones, 03-02-2002 20:05:00  
old bones, the light would have to be the same load as the coil to get a valid test. A test light or small bulb wouldn't be enough load to make the resistor function correctly. ~He is talking a $120.00 coil so that is either pony or maybe a Wico distributor.
~If he tells us the usage of the coil & what the application is we can help a little better.



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Gpower

03-02-2002 20:24:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to Clooney, 03-02-2002 20:16:55  
Clooney, didnt really pay much attention to the 120 coil part till you mentioned it, I would hope that is not for a regular ignition system!! As for the pony, I could see that. I have been describing the regular delco-remy setup. Anyhow, I hope he gets it figured out.
Gpower



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G Taylor ...better voltage control than resisitors

03-03-2002 06:31:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to Gpower, 03-02-2002 20:24:44  
While resisitors are cheap & easy they are hot,lossy & do not "regulate" volatge if the load varies. Three wire solid state regulators from radio shack or for better selection online electronic parts stores regulate voltage & provide short circuit protection.



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Frank-in-Talahassee

03-03-2002 07:51:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: explain a resistor in reply to G Taylor ...better voltage control than resisitors, 03-03-2002 06:31:18  
GTaylor:

I have used regulators like that, the LM309K comes to mind to supply 5V logic circuits. Put upto like 25V in and get 5V out.

Can anyone tell me what voltage the designers were going for after the resistor on like my pony motor ignition? Were they looking for 3V, 4V ? I've not measured it. A regulator under the dash sure would be easy to hide. Then you could use a thermistor to shut down the line after the temp went up if you let the switch on...hmmmmm m.

Though when I had my pony tuned up right, I let the resistor in the line all the time and it fired just fine.

Frank

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Clooney

03-02-2002 19:42:47




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 Re: explain a resistor in reply to Mark, 03-02-2002 19:04:26  
Mark, an ignition system resistor only acts as a resistance under load. ~Open circuit voltage will be almost the same on each side of the resistor (depending on the impedance of the meter used for measuring) & the voltage on the coil side will only be lower with the points closed or engine running. ~The best way to see if the ballast resistor is working correctly is to measure the running voltage on the distributor side of the coil.

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