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Blow-by??

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Wanna-Be-Mechanic

03-02-2002 15:53:57




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I have a '48 or '49 "A". The clutch pulley had an oil film on it, near the crankcase, and when running, looked to be venting crankcase "smoke". I noticed the clutch would slip a little when engaging, but seemed hold in fine after engaged.

I took the whole clutch assembly off and did some cleaning. The oil channel in the clutch drive was a little gunked up, and the hole at the bottom of the housing was plugged (I cleaned them). Of course the clutch disks had an oil film on them, as well as the pressure plates.

I cleaned all the clutch surfaces with a laquer thinner to get the oil off and put it back together. When I put the adjusting nuts on, they have to be on far enough that the cotter pins are in the innermost holes. It still slips in higher gears when engaging the clutch. When I put it in 5th and throw the clutch in, it wont kill it or even pull it down, just kind of takes off slow and easy. I'v got the nuts tight enough that one more notch is really tuff to get clutch handle to snap in. The clutch disks are about 1/8" thick.

Then I went to the hardware store and got the piping to make an extended oil fill and welded a 1/2" pipe on the side of it to act like a breather tube. When it runs, the crankcase is breathing in and out on that little tube.

I have a few questions: are the clutch disks needing to be replaced for thickness? Did the oil glaze the disks? Why am I getting oil in the clutch in the first place? Was I wrong to use a laquer thinner to clean the oil off the clutch parts (couldn't think of anything else at the time)?

Any help would be really appreciated, as I am just a wanna-be-mechanic.

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Clooney

03-02-2002 16:24:36




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 Re: Blow-by?? in reply to Wanna-Be-Mechanic, 03-02-2002 15:53:57  
Wanna-Be-Mechanic, oil on the clutch plates will definitely make it slip, as well a worn dogs, worn toggles, oblong hole in the sleeve for the drive pin, worn sleeve drive pin & wear in the operating sleeve. You say the clutch plates are 1/8" thick, do they have any lining left at that thickness (must be close to metal at 1/8").
~The oil getting into the clutch can be caused by blow-by as well as wear on the sleeve to pulley or worn R/H main bearing letting too much oil into the 1st reduction cover.
~With the clutch engaged see how much tension is on the adjusting nuts, if very little, you have worn parts (sleeve pin hole, toggles, dogs, sleeve toggle holes, dog & pulley tab pins/holes, or all of the above). If the nuts are good & tight & seem to have good tension, suspect oil on the plates, worn plates, glazed plates, or plates without lining.

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Wanna-Be

03-02-2002 19:49:51




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 Re: Re: Blow-by?? in reply to Clooney, 03-02-2002 16:24:36  
Clooney:
When I looked the clutch plates, both sides of them appeared to have brass or bronze colored metal in a "wormy" configuration throughout the face that would snag the rag a bit when I wiped them off. Is this is the metal that you refer to?? I just assumed that there was a steel plate imbedded inside the clutch disk that the lining was attached to, and that these "worms" were just part of the clutch disk facings. As you can probably tell, I know just enough about some of these things to be dangerous.

The operating sleeve seemed to be a good fit on the belt pulley shaft, it slid easily, but didn't flop or slop.

The bronze bushing was a little loose on the crankshaft. After I slid the belt pulley back on, if I lifted the outside of the belt pulley, without the driving-adjusting-clutch disks installed, I could feel a little slop, and that bronze bushing had a few marks in it.

As far as the adjusting nuts, what would be a proper torque setting on these? I'm not sure what you mean by good tension. In the past, I just set them so the clutch lever snapped in and out (have only had to set them up once or twice in past 5 years). I do know that it seems to pull out a little harder than it goes in. I want to make sure that I'm with you on this.

Any further info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your response.

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Clooney

03-02-2002 20:09:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Blow-by?? in reply to Wanna-Be, 03-02-2002 19:49:51  
Wanna-Be, that wormy type bronze imbedded material is probably the lining material & sounds ok. When it is gone all you have is steel showing.
~I can't give you a torque on those nuts when the clutch is snapped in as there isn't a spec on that adjustment. You might just want to back the nuts off with the clutch snapped in to see how much tension they have (if after only a little movement they become loose you have wear problems in the operating parts somewhere). How much rotational play did you have in the operating sleeve? If that sleeve isn't fairly tight on the anti-rotational pin (drive pin) it will let the toggles lean to one side when going over center & not apply the clutch with enough tension to not slip.
~If there is excess wear in the clutch operating parts (all the wear added up can cause the problem you are seeing) the clutch CAN slip when engaged but be very hard to engage & dis-engage. The reason is, the toggles must go over center to apply the clutch & return over center to dis-engage, once they go over center, if they go too far or to the side, the pressure on the clutch plates is reduced.

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Wanna-Be

03-03-2002 12:21:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Blow-by?? in reply to Clooney, 03-02-2002 20:09:42  
Clooney:
I backed off the nuts with the clutch engaged, as you suggested. It took 2 complete turns of each nut (moving 1 "notch" of the castelated nut at a time) before I could move each by my bare fingers. Is this OK, or does it sound like dogs, toggles, pins, etc?

The operating sleeve had no noticeable rotational play. Only movement I found was fore and aft on the pulley shaft.

Any more thoughts?

Thanks, I appreciate your help.

Wanna-Be-Mechanic

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Clooney

03-03-2002 12:30:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Blow-by?? in reply to Wanna-Be, 03-03-2002 12:21:28  
Wanna-Be, it sounds like you have enough tension on the clutch when engaged & your problem is probably with the clutch plates either being glazed, oil soaked or installed incorrectly. ~You might want to clean the clutch plates & drive disk with brake clean & then rough the disks up with coarse sand paper.



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Wanna-Be

03-03-2002 12:50:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Blow-by?? in reply to Clooney, 03-03-2002 12:30:38  
Clooney:
I'll do it. Thanks for your help on this.

Wanna-Be-Mechanic



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Frank-in-Tallahassee

03-02-2002 16:09:59




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 Re: Blow-by?? in reply to Wanna-Be-Mechanic, 03-02-2002 15:53:57  
Wanna:

You could be getting blow-by indication at the clutch because your crankcase ventilation roller pump, located at the base of the fanshaft, has ceased to pump. Or, the air pipe from the tappet cover to the air cleaner is plugged.

Normally, it would pressurize the crankcase, then that pressure would makes it's way out that tappet cover vent pipe. If that pipe is plugged or gone and capped, the clutch is a good place for the pressure to try and escape.

That roller in the pump can score and be stuck down in it's vane body. But when this happens, it usually pumps oil into the air intake, and smokes like the devil.

Since you have plenty of pressure, I'd check that air pipe that goes from the tappet cover to the cast pipe on the frontside of the carb is clear.

The old fix if one didn't want to fix the pump was to do what you have already done. I think we just drilled about an 1/8" hole in the side of that pipe nipple where you add oil. I fixed the pump years later when I restored the tractor.

Frank-in-Tallahassee

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Wanna-Be

03-03-2002 11:01:44




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 Re: Re: Blow-by?? in reply to Frank-in-Tallahassee, 03-02-2002 16:09:59  
Frank:
I pulled the vent tube off this morning and it was clean/clear. Guess I'll be pulling the fanshaft & governor to check the ventilation pump next. As I was pulling the vent tube, I noticed that the air cleaner had developed a pin hole in the bottom at some time and drained the oil from the cleaner pan, so I'll be brazing that at the same time. (by the way...would the lack of oil in the air cleaner result in less resistance to carb suction, thus affect the pull of crankcase air through the vent tube? just a quick thought.) Thanks for your advice.
Wanna-Be-Mechanic (maybe I'll make it someday)

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Wanna-Be

03-02-2002 19:08:34




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 Re: Re: Blow-by?? in reply to Frank-in-Tallahassee, 03-02-2002 16:09:59  
Frank:

It doesn't suck any oil or smoke, so hopefully it isn't the ventilator pump. I'll check the vent tube tomorrow. If it's OK, I'll probably be back to pick your brain.

Thanks for the response.



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