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Lemons

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ken

02-26-2002 18:56:57

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i am a john deere fan but i would like to hear what models wern't any good made by jd. i've noticed that most 4960 have had motor work

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Mark A

02-27-2002 11:54:05

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Re: lemons in reply to ken, 02-26-2002 18:56:57

JD 2010, especially the diesels.

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Denny Frisk

02-27-2002 07:45:31

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Re: lemons in reply to ken, 02-26-2002 18:56:57

According to Dick Kinzbaugh, anything with a 531 or 619 cid diesel engine in it. I've heard bad things about the thin stamped steel frame A's & B's where mounted equip. would tear holes in the frames. Quite a few others I could name too, like the weak PTO's in the R diesel, The 2-cyl Pony engine in the R, and the 2-main bearing crankshaft in the R...

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Oh, a real JD fan, huh?

02-27-2002 08:48:04

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Re: Re: lemons in reply to Denny Frisk, 02-27-2002 07:45:31

Jon Kinzenbaw doesn't like anything with "John Deere" on it, and he's made a ton of money re-powering JD tractors with Cummins and Detroit engines. He's also made a ton of money building planters, since some stupid judge and jury decreed that JD had denied him access to planter units for his POS toolbars, and so awarded him the right to copy the JD Max-Emerge units.

If you think JD tractors have had a bunch of problems, I suggest you start ferreting out the "lemons" of the other brands----I think you'll find a bunch of them.

As to the original question, the only real "lemons" Deere ever built were the pre-1931 "GP" series tractors, and the 2010's. Other models may have had this or that problem, but these two deserve to be in Deere's Hall of Shame.

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Denny Frisk

02-27-2002 15:01:27

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Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to Oh, a real JD fan, huh?, 02-27-2002 08:48:04

You Obviously Heard a "Different Side" of the situation than I read in FARM SHOW Magazine years ago. Friend just told Me a different Spin on the situation about the planters... Kinzbaugh's Daughter told My friend what really happened. They went to school together. I think John just wanted to be delt fairly with By Deere. After ALL, He made Millions of $$$$ off of Deere. I never said I was a "Deere Fan" Guy just wanted to know of tractors or whatever that gave problems. Dad only ever had 3. A 'late 39 or early '40 B, styled but only 4 speed, an R, and a 4010 D. Only one He didn't have problems with was the B, because the damn thing would never start when you needed it. The R was gutless and Dad sold it before it broke, and All I remember doing is working on the 4010 fixing one problem after another. It was a nice tractor to run, but FAR from trouble-free. As far as learning about "Other Brands and their problems", What do YOU want to know? But then, That wasn't the person's question was it! Calm Down! Not everyone is SO In Love with the Deere Tradition as to be blind to their faults!

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ken

02-27-2002 14:29:49

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Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to Oh, a real JD fan, huh?, 02-27-2002 08:48:04

i am a jd fan 80% of the equipment that other brands build are junk

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BMeyer

02-27-2002 02:40:17

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Re: lemons in reply to ken, 02-26-2002 18:56:57

1010 Special

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TWS

02-27-2002 03:03:30

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Re: Re: lemons in reply to BMeyer, 02-27-2002 02:40:17

The 1010 was basically a 430 with a 4 cylinder engine and was a peach compared the the 2010 which was a real lemon.

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Handsome Jim

02-27-2002 15:11:00

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Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to TWS, 02-27-2002 03:03:30

I never really thought of a 1010 in those terms before but I would have to say that it is a fairly accurate assessment. We had a 430 back the seventies and to look at our 1010 from the dash on back and also to operate it, it's really similar to the 430.HJ

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Ray

02-27-2002 20:18:51

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Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to Handsome Jim, 02-27-2002 15:11:00

A 1010 looked similar to a 430, but most of the
parts wouldn't interchange.The tranny housings
are different (1010 has an extra housing bolt),
ring and pinion are different.Some of the gears will interchange,but not all

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G Taylor

02-27-2002 18:39:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to Handsome Jim, 02-27-2002 15:11:00

The 1010 diesel was a good try but left much to be desired with the one piece sleeve deck. The gas 1010 was reliable as long as it was fed clean air,fuel,oil & never overheated. The 510 & 710 sold outside of the US were no prize either being a Lance with a Deere engine.Who said the Germans didn't have a sense of humor. There are equipment operators who could " break an anvil with a rubber hammer". My Grandfather & Uncles, I just cringe to look at their equipment when visiting. Machinery/equipment looks like the childrens toys about a month after Christmas.

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Handsome Jim

02-28-2002 04:19:29

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to G Taylor , 02-27-2002 18:39:04

For small tractors, I thought they both drove like log wagons.

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rhudson

02-27-2002 08:27:57

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Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to TWS, 02-27-2002 03:03:30

i have a 1010 that has done row work since late 60's few problems. i have a friend that has a 2010 (not to be confused with 1020, which may be The best JD made) that has been nothing but problems.

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G-MAN

02-27-2002 07:56:25

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Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to TWS, 02-27-2002 03:03:30

As far as the 4960 goes, the problem was with the pistons, and it was repaired by John Deere as a fix as fail item. Once this problem was corrected, the 4960 became the rock-solid tractor it was designed to be. Every company has had problem tractors: 2+2, binder fans? 70 series rear-ends, Case guys?

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Denny Frisk

02-27-2002 15:07:21

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Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to G-MAN, 02-27-2002 07:56:25

What's the problem with the 2+2's? Other than the fact the front axle went thru 6 or 7 engineering revisions BEFORE the first tractor was built, I wasn't aware there was a problem with them. Ohh, Yes, the hood latch... and needing the replacement hoods... I bet that's it right? I worked at FARMALL when the 33/35/3788's were being introduced & built. The pivot bushings may have been a little light duty for the way most of them were used... But other than that I didn't think they held-up too bad.

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G-MAN

02-27-2002 15:51:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to Denny Frisk, 02-27-2002 15:07:21

I didn't intend to open a can of worms with my reply. I am a full-time JD tech. I have also worked in a New Holland dealership. And, I was raised around IH, from M's all the way up to the 86 series. I have seen design problems and recurring troubles on all brands. Nothing is perfect. However, I see a lot more older Deeres still in the field than any other brand. And I don't think anyone can disagree with that if you think about it. You're not going to convince a fan of any brand that another brand is better. They all have pros and cons. I do get tired of people ripping on Deere, though. After all, Deere is the only company left that hasn't been bought out, bought someone out, or been eliminated entirely. And yes, the green paint is a religion to a lot of people. I'll get off the stump now and let it go from here.

p.s. My understanding of the 2+2 situation is that all the extensive redesigns were a major reason that IH went under. That's just what I read, sorry if I'm wrong. We also noticed that Case immediately dropped the 2+2 as soon as they purchased IH. Coincidence? You be the judge.

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Denny Frisk

02-28-2002 10:14:05

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to G-MAN, 02-27-2002 15:51:54

Granted, a lot of $$$$ went into getting the plant ready to produce the 2+2's but I'm really NOT aware of any major up-date programs that ever existed like the 460/560 Fiasco. The hood latch was from a '50's IH truck and the switching of railcars (IH shipped a LOT of tractor via rail) would break the latch and the hood would extend forward and get damaged. I read in FARMSHOW Mag. about a new 2+2 that didn't complete a full round of field finishing after it was delivered... a loose bolt in the transfer case tore out ALL the gears. The building where the tractors were joined together was expensive to build... Computer guided carts delivered front halves& back halves to the marriage stations and then moved the complete tractors around less the wheels/tires. Wires buried in the floor. The building was designed to make 8 tractors per shift.... For a while We were making 42 tractors on 2 shifts.... But then, after about Jan 1982 that department only ran about 6 months out of the year, hard to recover the investment that way. Reason Case/IH didn't keep the 2+2? Maybe it was just a little too different.... and it was based off the older 86-Series rearend (at least the 3X88's were)... and Case/IH (Tenneco) only wanted the 5X88 rearend for the Magnum. The Super 70's as they were called were the marriage of the 5X88 rear end in the 2+2.... and there was what, maybe 2 dozen prototypes of them made? .... It's funny how these rumors get started isn't it.....

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Rasa

02-27-2002 16:42:59

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to G-MAN, 02-27-2002 15:51:54

john deere is the only company that hasnt been taken over yet.their earnings are poor and Cat and Agco are breathing down their necks..

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G-MAN

02-27-2002 17:35:06

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to Rasa, 02-27-2002 16:42:59

Yeah, you sure see a lot of traded-in Deeres at Agco and Cat dealerships, don't you. Not around here.

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Rasa

02-28-2002 12:46:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to G-MAN, 02-27-2002 17:35:06

you dont see a lot of john deeres being SOLD around here.local deere dealer is about to go belly up.

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G-MAN

02-28-2002 13:59:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to Rasa, 02-28-2002 12:46:44

We don't even have a local Agco dealer, how much longer do you want to keep this fued going? Grow up already.

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Rasa

02-28-2002 17:24:33

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to G-MAN, 02-28-2002 13:59:26

didnt know it was a feud,just expressing my opinion from the midwest.far as im concerned,its finished.have a good day.

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G-MAN

02-28-2002 19:38:48

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to Rasa, 02-28-2002 17:24:33

I live in the midwest also, Nebraska. I wasn't trying to be an a$$hole, just making some observations. I'm sorry your local deere dealer is going under. However, that is an independent business and not deere as a whole. We just got through working on 100 tractors on our winter promotion and have 70 combines signed up, so I'm pretty sure we will be in business for a while yet. No hard feelings. I am interested in how you are involved with Agco though. Do you work for a dealer? Are you a tech? Just curious.

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my blood is RED

03-04-2002 13:52:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to G-MAN, 02-28-2002 19:38:48

CASE/IH bought by fiat. their "new" tractor name plate "mcormick" aint life funny.

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TP from Central PA

02-27-2002 16:19:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lemons in reply to G-MAN, 02-27-2002 15:51:54

Heck, the only reason Case dropped the 2+2 design and the best 2+2's built, the Super 70's, was that IH's designs were to advanced for the Case engineers to understand ;-)

All Jokes aside, every brand has it's problems. I prefer IH's, but like all older tractors, I think the main problem with the older Deere's were the hand clutch. IH's had a cramped opperating platform. Ford's, to whimpy to do any real work. Other brand had etc.. etc.. problems.

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