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Clooney
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Anyone - Can you improve on Deere design??

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Wayne in Tn.

01-25-2002 12:19:32




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Ok. Here it is again..The black smoking Dubuque tractors. Every one I have ever seen does it even after: (1) Boil out carb. clean and blow out all passages, new kit, needle and seat. clean the overflow hole in bottom of carb air inlet. (2) New breather hose.New sediment bowl. (3) Boil out breather and wash out clean, new oil. (4)Overhaul engine: rings,bearings, all valves and guides, set valve lash,head surfaced.(5) All new ignition: wires, points, condenser, coil, Autolite plugs, set point and plug gap.(6) New gas. (7)Adjust carb. with the power screw (on bottom) IN as far as possible without engine backfireing. Set air screw (on top) they all seem to run better with this one all the way in tight or almost tight.(8)One possible disavantage is temp. gages are not going up much...we don't work them all day in the field like in the old days.(9) Are we just destined to live with this? Is it the design of the updraft system? (10) Can anyone improve on this problem?

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Clooney

01-26-2002 17:46:02




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 Re: Clooney - Anyone - Can you improve on Deere design?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 01-25-2002 12:19:32  
Wayne, the black smoke isn't normal during running or even loading. A little black smoke after start-up doesn't surprise me if the choke was used to start it, & a little black smoke on throttle up is normal due to the built in accelerating system built into the carb. ~The fact that you have the idle screw turned in so far bothers me some & you probably still have a plugged air bleed or other internal carb problem such as leaking throttle shaft seals or worn throttle plate.
~The cold running usually isn't a problem on a thermo-siphon system as they tend to heat the water in the block pretty good before water movement starts.

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Wayne in Tn. ---- ------Clooney------

01-26-2002 19:06:48




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 Re: Re: Clooney - Anyone - Can you improve on Deere design?? in reply to Clooney, 01-26-2002 17:46:02  
Clooney, you may have hit on something, about the worn throttle plate, I don't know how to tell if they are worn. I always try to set them where they are fully closed. I always put new throttle shaft seals. Where is the air bleed? That is a puzzle to me also: the idle screws closed.



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Clooney

01-27-2002 05:31:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Clooney - Anyone - Can you improve on Deere design?? in reply to Wayne in Tn. ---- ------Clooney------, 01-26-2002 19:06:48  
Wayne, the idle screw on the TSX series carb is actually an air adjusting screw (not fuel like on the DTLX) try setting it at 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 out & see if the smoke goes away, if it does then you have other problems that require a richer idle setting like leaking throttle plate, leaking throttle shaft seals, vacuum leak, too low an idle, plugged or restricted idle passage lower jet/orifice>>>(in bottom of vertical idle passage where it enters main nozzle chamber), plugged or restricted idle jet>>>> (in upper casting at bottom of idle passage), plugged economizer passages>>>(in upper casting at float bowl or the hole into throttle bore), plugged or restricted primary idle orifice>>>(upper most little hole in throttle bore) , incorrect fuel level, damaged end on idle air screw due to over tightening, or some other reason the engine needs a rich idle mixture such as poor spark, incorrect ignition timing, low compression, leaking valve guides etc.
~If you are trying to get the engine to idle too low it will take a richer idle screw setting to do so & that will leave the mixture too rich at higher idle & mid range conditions.
~If you are running an all-fuel tractor on gasoline they don't usually run as clean due to lower compression & different carb passage/orifice sizes.
~If you still can't get it to run clean after checking the above, post back or E-Mail me & when I get home later I will try to locate & scan you a picture of the carb passages & internal cutaway of the TSX carb. (If I can find it?, sometimes I have to wait until I'm looking for something else to stumble across what I looked for the day before & couldn't find)

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Steven Koser

01-26-2002 17:25:57




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 Re: Clooney - Anyone - Can you improve on Deere design?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 01-25-2002 12:19:32  
Wayne, I too disagree with the notion that all Dubuque engines smoke a "little". Wayne, just make sure you have the load and idle asjustments just as lean as possible. If this is a play tractor, keep that load needle in far enough that so that when under hard load the needle is actually too lean. I do this all the time. I have a personal hatred for black smoking engines. For parades and light duty service, I personally run my tractors leaner than when they are being worked. The difference is only about a 1/2 to 1/3 turn of the screw. And if all this fails, it is not the end of the world if you get a puff of smoke when you open the throttle. Just so it is not doing it on a regular basis. Steve

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dubuque guy

01-26-2002 08:14:31




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 Re: Clooney - Anyone - Can you improve on Deere design?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 01-25-2002 12:19:32  
I have an M, MT, 40, and 430W and none of them smoke. Maybe it is the quality work of my carb. man. Two were complete rebuilds and two were just minor with tune-ups and carb rebuilds.



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jCarroll

01-25-2002 19:36:47




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 Re: Clooney - Anyone - Can you improve on Deere design?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 01-25-2002 12:19:32  
On my 40s, I routinely grind about .100" off the end of the rotor to increase the gap (and the electrical resistance) so that a higher voltage fires the plug.

Try removing the spark plug wire from the fouling cylinder, and hold it close to the plug electrode. If the cylinder starts to fire, you know that higher voltage is firing the plug, and my suggestion will help your situation.



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MERRILL

01-25-2002 14:11:28




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 Re: Clooney - Anyone - Can you improve on Deere design?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 01-25-2002 12:19:32  
my jd420w is like jeff's no problem.



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Jeff's 40

01-25-2002 13:25:41




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 Re: Clooney - Anyone - Can you improve on Deere design?? in reply to Wayne in Tn., 01-25-2002 12:19:32  
Wayne,

My 40 only gives me a puff or two of black smoke when it first fires up and than seems to be o.k. So it can't be all the vertical 2 Cyl.

Jeff



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Wayne in Tn.

01-26-2002 16:11:54




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 Re: Re: Clooney - Anyone - Can you improve on Deere design?? in reply to Jeff's 40, 01-25-2002 13:25:41  
That is what I am talking about: The black smoke when first starting and when opening up the throttle. After all my long-winded post above. I forgot to mention that I have ground off the rotor button and have 2 washers under each plug. I am not actually fouling out any plugs, just the smoke mentioned above. I bet if they will just admit it-- they all do it. Thanks for all the input, Wayne.



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