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51 B won't start Please help

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Larry G

12-03-2003 07:47:10




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A friend called me and ask me to look at his B. I took the starter out and it had a broken wire plus a new switch. Now it will turn over but only pop once in a while. I checked plugs and points. Metered the electric and found juice to the distributor, coil, etc. If I turn it over several times then take out the plugs they are wet, so getting fuel. What am I missing here?? He said it ran OK until the starter quit which was several months ago.

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John T

12-03-2003 10:31:09




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 Re: 51 B won't start Please help in reply to Larry G, 12-03-2003 07:47:10  
Larry, yours is one of those wide open questions to which there could be several different causes, but knowing its a distributor ignition, that the coil and distributor are gettign juice as you say, and the plugs wet, Im gonna start by just tossing out a few simple cheap easy thigns to try and a few questions and then go from there, so I dont have to covery every possible problem in this first post. First, if the plus are too wet she may just be flooded, try new plugs or clean those and use less choke and see what happens.

***********IGNITION RELATED*******************

1) If you remove the plugs but their wires attached and them up against the tractor to get a ground and turn her on and crank her over, DO BOTH PLUGS YIELD A GOOD VISIBLE BLUE AND NOT A FAINT THIN WIMPY YELOW SPARK????? ???

2) If the plugs appear fouled or have an excess of black sooty coated deposits or exhibit a shiny uneven dark wet looking black coating, REPLACE THEM and see what happens. Maybe try Autolite 388.

3) If they are good clean plugs and spark but its a weak thin yellow spark, check the ignition points and insure they are gapped propely. If they are heavy gray oxide coated or burned or pitted or carboned up, REPLACE THEM and gap and see what the spark looks like. If they appear good but only a light gray oxide coating, you may get by with cleaning/buffing/polishing them but not too abrasive to remove their silver coating.

4) While the caps off and youre inspecting the points, be sure the cap is clean and moisture free and has no cracks or carbon traces.

5) If the plugs do not fire but them and the points are good and clean and gapped per the above, remove the coil wire from the cap (leave coil end in coil) and place that exposed end to within 1/8 inch from the tractors iron frame, turn her on and crank her over and see if a good spark jumps that gap?? If so there but NOT the plugs, its either a cap or rotor or plug wires or a plug problem.

6) You say the coil has juice, but just to insure the condition of the igniton switch and wiring etc., try hot wirign the coil direct by runing a hot wire from the ungrounded battery post down to the coils high (not to distributor) sude and see if the spark or staritgn improves greatly. If so, the switch may be resistive and bad.

IGNITION SUMMARY: Check the cheap easy thigns first like plugs and points and replace them or both if bad per the above tips, either is a common cause of hard to start.

PS Is there a wire from the starter post up to the ammeter??? Thats the main feed wire (ignition and lights etc) BUT you said the coil had juice??? Be sure thers a good wire to the ammeter from the starter or battery post!!!!!

***************STARTIGN SYSTEM****************

1) Does the tractor crank over fairly fast??? or is it slow n weak and draggyyyyy yyy. A weak battery or starter or bad cables or grounds can cause exces current draw which lowers battery voltage and weakens the spark causing hard starting. Try a known good substitute battery or a jump and see if cranking improves vastly and she has a better spark.

2) If she pull starts very easy but wont when cranking, the battery or cables or start system may be weak.

**************FUEL PROBLEMS*******************

1) Be sure the gas is not stale and maybe if so, flush it out and try good clean fresh water free gas and see what happens. Remove the air cleaner and insure its lower bowl is not gunked up and full of water etc.

2) Open the carb bowls lower drain cock plug, turn the gas on, and insure a good stream of fresh gas about 1/16 or so in diameter flows out a couple minutes.

3) Remove the intake air pipe from the carb and be sure the choke butterfly plate is tight on its shaft and open and closes and stays put relative to where its set.

4) You say the plugs are wet?? Does it seem to be getting too much gas and flooding??? Are they very wet and coated with gas or just moist????

5) Have you adjusted the carbs top needles and see if it helps??? the initial rough in setitgns are 3/4 to 1 out for the load needle and 1 3/4 to 2 out for the idle.

***************ENGINE RELATED*******************

1) If shes sat a long time and the rings or valves or cylinders have a problem, she may be low on compression. Try to remove the plugs and squirt somne oil in the cylinders and lube up the rigns and see if she starts then??? If so, the rings/cyliders may be worn or slightly stuck. Try to pull start her and let her run then see if she starts betetr on the battery???

2) Are both cylinders producing good or about equal compression??? Have you ran a compression test??? If you suspect low or no compresion by removing the plugs and seeing how much vacuum and pressure she blows out, and its weak, remove the valve cover top and insure all valves are openign and closign and none stuck open????? ??

3) Did she blue smoke a lot or have excess blow by last time she ran?????

CLOSING, I would check the plugs and points and replace both if they appear even anywhere near bad,,,,, ,,Try fresh clean gas,,,,, ,, Substiture or jump the battery so she cranks over fairly well,,,,, ,,, try squiritgn a lil oil into the cylinders,,,,, ,,,,check the choke and carb settings,,,,, ,,Pull start her and let her run a little. THIS assumes the coil had juice as you said, if not, post back!!!!! !!!!

Post back your findings and any questions or e mail jmn50@msn.com and we will proceed from there.

Good Luck n God Bles ya Larry

John T

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Larry G

12-03-2003 10:59:24




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 Re: Re: 51 B won't start Please help in reply to John T, 12-03-2003 10:31:09  
Thanks for all the info. I will get some new plugs and go out after work and try some of these ideas. I was working on some of the obvious things but didn't have new plugs, etc. with me last time. The other thing is I don't know how much "playing" he has done with it. I will go back to the basics again and start eliminating things. Thanks again!



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John T

12-03-2003 13:28:30




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 Re: Re: Re: 51 B won't start Please help in reply to Larry G, 12-03-2003 10:59:24  
Youre welcome Larry, Yep, just stick to the basics first of fuel n spark at the right time the easy simple things first and she may fire right up. Let me know what you find or if you need more help. John T



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Larry G

12-03-2003 15:42:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 51 B won't start Please help in reply to John T, 12-03-2003 13:28:30  
John T. I locked up a little early, stopped and got new plugs and some test equipment. I gapped and installed the plugs, installed new points and set, did a rough set on the carb, put on a new coil wire, and it fired right off. Didn't run too smooth at first because my friend had been messing with the timing. I reset timing and tuned the carb settings a little and it seems to run decent. At least I started it 5 or 6 times and warmed it up good. I think my friend will be surprised when he gets home. Thanks for your help and God Bless You.

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old

12-03-2003 08:05:07




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 Re: 51 B won't start Please help in reply to Larry G, 12-03-2003 07:47:10  
Are you getting spark at the plugs, has many be some one switch the 2 plugs wires or maybe the plugs are bad. Hope this helps you trouble shoot it some



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