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Distributor question?

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Jack

01-17-2002 12:29:10




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Is there any kind of mechanical advance inside a 70 gas Delco distributor?Thanks




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Tony

01-17-2002 18:01:16




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 Re: Distributor question? in reply to Jack, 01-17-2002 12:29:10  
Jack, I don't think you should give up on it yet. A lot of things could still cause the tractor not to pull good.

Can I assume you're antique tractor pulling? If so you really should invest in some dyno time. I'm a firm believer in it. I've probably had my 630 on the dyno twice as much as I've pulled it.

First, It sound like to me you've done a good tune-up. Try an Autolite 3116 plug and open the gap, and order a real good set of wires. From there I would suggest a good thorough check of the valve train. It could be as simple as just needing a set of valve springs. Check and see what your seat pressure is (example 85 pounds valve closed). Not enough pressure and the valve won't close fast enough - No lugging power. Another suggestion, also check with someone and see if you can get a leak down tester. Compression can show a real high number but if the valves are not sealing or the rings are worn, you can say 'bye-bye' to low end lugging power.

Keep the post up and inform us.

If you're not to far away my dyno time is not expensive. I do it for enjoyment.

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Jack

01-18-2002 05:10:09




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 Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to Tony, 01-17-2002 18:01:16  
I have a Dyno and have spent lots of time on it already.I found a broken exaust valve spring and a power jet missing in the carb.I have tried it with the oil bath on and off and turned the distributor to where it has max hp also.I have used 3116 and 388's and now I have a plug(which I threaded myself)that fits all the way down to the edge of the cylinder.I have tried all variations of fuel too along with checking to see if I have a good fuel flow to the carb.My electronic ignition is due in next week(hopefully)but I doubt that will improve my problem much but I am gonna try.Thanks for all of your advice.

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Tony

01-18-2002 05:50:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to Jack, 01-18-2002 05:10:09  
I'm real satisfied with my points in mine. Just for curiosity I took my other tractor and as we speak getting the electronic ignition installed. Personally, I think the only thing it will do is send a better signal to the coil. They say added HP and easier starting. Easier starting probably, more HP no. We're not turning 6000 RPM with our JD's.

You might really want to consider a cam. Could just be a bad one (e.g. lobes just worn from usuage) if you're comfortable with the valve springs.

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G Taylor

01-17-2002 17:55:11




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 Re: Distributor question? in reply to Jack, 01-17-2002 12:29:10  
While the gas 60 & 70's D-R 1928263 distributor is listed in the Deere electrical book, it's advance isn't. Typical spring tension for all distributors is 17 to 21 ounces and advance starts from 225 to 400 rpm depending on the application. Total advance ranges from 8.5-11.5 to 23-26 degrees depending on the application. Max centrifical advance is all in at 550 to 1000rpm depending on the tractor.

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Todd

01-17-2002 13:22:20




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 Re: Distributor question? in reply to Jack, 01-17-2002 12:29:10  
I feel your pain. Ive been messing with a 70 gas for about four months now. I'm like you, everything seems to be O.K., but it won't pull the slack out of your underwear. I am about ready to trade it off. A G with high compression pistons seems to be twice the tractor (comparing my two). So much for the dual carb, head, and manifold. I guess that smaller bore is a killer. I should look for an all-fuel 70. Im watching your posts hoping your solution will be mine also.

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Jack

01-17-2002 13:53:54




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 Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to Todd, 01-17-2002 13:22:20  
I have a 52 G with .90 over cast all fuel pistons and shaved head and gas manifold that will walk all over my 70.My cam and advance in the distributor are the only things I have not messed with yet.I am running about 396 cu and 125psi per cylinder with high comp pistons.It ought to be at least a little competitive.It would not due for me to get a good offer,it may just hit the road if I did(stroke the G).

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G Taylor

01-17-2002 18:12:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to Jack, 01-17-2002 13:53:54  
Jack I'm tempted to make an offer on that 70 of yours. Weak valve springs as previously posted does sound logical. It has to have lot more of power held captive with some partialy failed stealth component. Then again I've been chasing an intermitant fault in the wife's SUV & I'm getting ready to sell it too out of frustration. Why that computer won't always send the torque convertor lock signal when required is beyond me.

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Clooney

01-17-2002 18:18:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to G Taylor , 01-17-2002 18:12:45  
~Glen, what kind & model of suv are you having a TCC lock problem with?



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G Taylor ..........stealth bugs/gremlins

01-17-2002 22:04:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to Clooney, 01-17-2002 18:18:57  
Hope I don't get smacked for being off topic. It's a 95 Jimmy S-10 4x4 SLT with the W series Vortec 4.3 & 4L60E trans. One ecm for the entire vehicle. It was locking properly just before the trans rebuild & engine rebuild #3 which were done together. It had been locking perfect even with rebuild engines #1& #2 with the lumpy 266 degree cam. Engine #3 has the same brand/lift cam with smoother 260 degrees. So the speed density metering isn't getting confused & throwing codes, except misfire at idle due to the cam's rough idle, but not enough to bring the check engine light on at any time. Clearing the code makes no difference. Brake switch is fine, throttle position pot was replaced as it was "notchy" but no difference. Coolant is up to temp & trans shifts into all gears fine. Tends to lock better at 35 to 50 mph than speeds over that. Will lock properly for a mile or two then unlock for the next 5 to 20 miles. Going to study the factory service manual tonight. The local trans shop that did the rebuild replaced the lock solenoid etc anyways. Just not getting the solenoid energized from the computer. Connections at computer are clean. Trans was rebuilt because it was high mileage & handy to get at while the engine was out. Nothing broken or worn through internally in 235,000KM pulling a 5000lb trailer on occasion with synthetic trans lube. Got cranky with the Jimmy & ordered a 2002 Sierra crew cab 4x4 1500HD for hauling. Keeping the Jimmy for a 2nd beater vehicle..... ....maybe.

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Chicken George

01-18-2002 09:59:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to G Taylor ..........stealth bugs/gremlins , 01-17-2002 22:04:15  
G.,
Maybe put a light in the c.lock up circut at the trans connector and put it in the cab and check if you are actually loosing the 12v.to the sol. in the trans or the voltage is there and the converter is dropping out because of other reasons.It would eliminate that part of it anyway. Aint there a temp senor in the pan in that 700? let me know. Geo.



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G Taylor

01-18-2002 12:24:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to Chicken George, 01-18-2002 09:59:12  
Both the engine coolant temp & trans temp have to be within a high/low window for permissives for lockup. Wondering when it's winter with an external trans cooler if that maybe a factor? Going to put the mulitmeter on the temp sensors tonight when the Mrs gets back tonight. The throttle postion & manifold pressure are the two main controls. And has to be in overdrive unless doing over 75mph in 3rd gear? This one has OBDII VCM-A & can't directly check TCC from under the dash,darn. The same TCC circuit also powers the ABC trans logic circuits. If it isn't temp, it maybe be a high resistance connection somewhere??? SUV is beginning sound like a relative of Jack's 70 gas. May have to purchase a scan tool or software for the laptop. Anyone know of some good equipment?

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Clooney

01-18-2002 14:30:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to G Taylor , 01-18-2002 12:24:51  
Glen, are you sure your system is obd-2, compliant? That system didn't go into production until much later. I didn't think we brought obd-2 ahead for Canada. (but sometimes Canadian laws force different timing on emission compliance so it could be possible) ~Does your vehicle have ABS, or RWAL or none?. I looked a can't find a 94 manual in my old manual collection but do have a wire print of a 93 Blazer on my computer. I haven't worked on the old style TCC system in over 10 years (am working on 2004-2006 stuff now) so will have to find a wire print or pinout before commenting conclusively on your system as I don't want to confuse you with incorrect information.
~Coolant temp,,, vehicle speed,,, tps,,, engine load/vs/RPM, (map signal-if yours has a map)or could use a combination of map & maf (mass airflow) or would just use maf if no map sensor,,, ABS (if equipped) are some of the PCM input signals that are used to tell the PCM when to ground the wire from the TCC lock up solenoid in the trans. The other end of the TCC lock-up solenoid is powered by a 12 volt source usually from a separate brake pedal switch than the brake lights (probably a purple wire). On some of the later obd-2 systems the brake input goes directly to the PCM & the PCM drops the ground side of the circuit for ice & ABS wheel lock up.
~If your problem wasn't so speed sensitive I would suspect the terminals at the trans connector as we had plenty of problems with those maintaining connection (especially after being unplugged a few times) the best way to test those is with a new male & female terminal by pushing onto the existing terminals in the trans & harness connector to see if you can feel a slight drag as the terminal is pushed in & pulled out.
~The trans has a sump temp sensor that could be causing a problem, if you are using an external trans cooler make sure it is in the trans out let line so the oil goes back through the radiator cooler before re-entering the trans (the ideal trans temp is the same as eng temp) or better yet by-pass it for winter use.
~A scan tool such as a TEC-2 or even a TEC-1 (if non obd-2) is the best approach as it will let you manually lock the trans TCC & you can monitor all the PCM input signals & even 12 volt brake s/w on/off. ~I have a software package on my laptop to monitor all PCM, BCM signals & even flash a new cal to the newer programmable PCM & BCM's, I don't think it will work on the old PCM's though & I haven't ever tried it because my cable won't hook to the old style ALDL connector. ~If you have the old non-obd-2 ALDL connector under your dash (drivers side) see if it has a tan/black wire in cavity "G" if so that is your TCC monitor wire for the scan tool & can be used with a (12 volt powered) light bulb to see if the PCM is actually grounding the TCC solenoid when the parameters are met for lock-up.
~If I can come up with a manual or wire pin-out I will be able to give you a step by step diagnosis to eliminate all but the trans internals & even some of those can be fooled externally because some are bypassed in 3rd gear & on the shift.
~If you suspect a cooling (over cooling) put cardboard in front of the cooler & radiator to see if higher rad & cooler temps will solve your intermittent problem. ~If you still can't find the problem after you look in your manual & eliminate the trans oil temp as the cause, E-Mail me & I will lend my old TEC-1 to you (it won't read on obd-2 though) & all it will cost is the shipping to & from Michigan.

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Clooney

01-17-2002 13:16:20




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 Re: Distributor question? in reply to Jack, 01-17-2002 12:29:10  
~Jack, yes there is, there should be springs & weights with a movable shaft that the rotor & cam is on. If you turn the rotor you should be able to see the rotor & shaft move & feel a little spring pressure.



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Chicken George

01-18-2002 19:09:31




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 Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to Clooney, 01-17-2002 13:16:20  
G. I believe your shifts are 1,2,3,LOCK UP & 4/or od.
I do think you have obd2.On my 94 its obd1 and it seems like it was the last year for it. like what cloney said, I've seen a LOT of trouble with that trans plug but I have seen bare/chafed wires in the pan or a loose plug in the pan on the tc. sol. don't cha just love this 'puter controlled stuff, Geo.



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G Taylor

01-19-2002 08:58:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Distributor question? in reply to Chicken George, 01-18-2002 19:09:31  
Chicken George could you send an e-mail please I don't have your address on file.
I'll send you fellows full up-date after some sleep, doing night shifts right now. Don't want to bore the patient patrons of this site further.
Jumpered the TCC lead & PWsomething lockup (too tired )metering solenoid together as they both ground to energize & lock convertor. Had perfect lock-up manners after the 1st 3 miles to the end of the 35 mile trip. It only unlocked on "steep" hills at 70MPH and in 1st,2nd & direct.
Checked engine & trans sends with ohm meter & temps were 90C engine & 60C trans, so no problem there.
This PM or PW metering solenoid is "reverse" acting? So is that less oil & less lock-up with a greater or less duty cycle? Seems less power would be more oil? Pure speed/density with 4WD, not AWD. Has had the anti-lock braking 4WD recall installed years ago. Single VCM with OBDII & four wiring harnesses plugging into it on the passenger front wheel well. Built in May 95. Connectors at computer look factory fresh.
Problem was sudden with this engine/trans installation.

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