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4010 Weep Hole Question

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Bobduck

01-03-2002 11:15:25




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Our road association has a 4010 diesel on which we have mounted a snowplow and wingplow to plow snow.

This is the only thing we use it for and it will be used between 30 and 50 hours a year in the winter.

It recently developed a antifreeze leak out of one of the "weep holes" on the side of the block between the o-rings on the sleeves.

The engine was completely overhauled by the last owner and has 1800 hours on the overhaul. The engine starts and runs good.

We're trying to decide what to do. The local dealer says we have to not only replace the seals on the sleeves but also need new sleeves,pistons, bearings etc for a cost of $3000.00 plus.

They will not warranty their work if we only have them only replace the o-rings on the sleeves (assuming when we open it up we don't find any other problems)

I'm getting advice all across the spectrum from doing a complete overhaul to pluggin the "weep hole" so it doesn't leak and running it that way.

I've talked to one farmer who has been running his for years with one of the holes plugged with no problems.

Would appreciate any input and specific experiences on this matter.

Many thanks.

B'duck

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david

01-04-2002 04:08:12




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 Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Bobduck, 01-03-2002 11:15:25  
Everyone here only talks about the orings going bad which is possible, but one must consider that the engine block is 40 years old and could have parts of the oring lands eroded away from poor antifreeze.



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Mark in md

01-03-2002 15:56:25




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 Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Bobduck, 01-03-2002 11:15:25  
The weep holes are located between the upper and lower o rings. In would crack the drain plug and check for any antifreeze in the oil. I doubt you find any. The upper o rings usually go bad from a combination of deteriation due to acids in the antifreeze(especially if the antifreeze is not changed regularly or coolant conditioner is not added at each oilchange) and air and dirt accumulations between the liner seals. If you are not getting antifreeze in the oil , I would say to plug the weep hole and fix it in the summer when the tractor isn't used. I would recommend testing the PH of the antifreeze and adding conditioner to get the PH correct.

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Bobduck

01-03-2002 16:02:04




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 Re: Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Mark in md, 01-03-2002 15:56:25  
The oil looks good, I don't see any sign of any coolant getting into the crankcase.

What is the "coolant conditioner" you are referring to for each oil change?

Thanks

Bobduck



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Mike

01-03-2002 15:43:14




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 Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Bobduck, 01-03-2002 11:15:25  
I've got a 4020D that the previous owner had to replace liner o-rings in also. The rest of the engine looked good though. If your liners are pitted, someone has ppen using tap water (hard) You need to use ditilled water only in an engine with liners, due to liner cavitation.



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Bobduck

01-03-2002 15:59:10




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 Re: Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Mike, 01-03-2002 15:43:14  
Can you elaborate a little.

What are you referring to when you say "Liner Cavitation"?

Thanks

Bobduck



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Denny Frisk

01-04-2002 11:07:10




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 Re: Re: Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Bobduck, 01-03-2002 15:59:10  
Cavitation is when the liner or cylinder expands due to the pressure on the inside from the compression and espoecially the power stroke of the piston. The liner expands and pushes the coolant away and then the liner contracts..., The coolant rushes back into the empty space but as soon as it touches the liner and because of the low pressure the coolant boils and erodes a small amount of metal from the outside of the liner. Eventually "Cavitation" will eat a hole clear thru the liner so the coolant can get into the crankcase ot is blown out the exh. FLEET-RITE makes an additive called DCA-4 that You can add to the anti-freeze to prevent this entirely. A 16 Oz. bottle treats about 1-1/2 gal. of antifreeze. The additive deposits a real thin layer of material made up of sodium, nitrates, and moly on the waterjacket that erodes instead and then re-coats itself.

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Greg H.

01-03-2002 13:18:52




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 Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Bobduck, 01-03-2002 11:15:25  
Bobduck,
I don't know that I would replace everything. What you have is an o-ring leak, and while nothing in life is certain, I feel it would be worth the price of a gasket set{250 or less} to pull the head drop the oil pan, and get a good look before I purchased liners and pistons. After you remove the head, and take out the pistons, and pull the sleeves you may find that one of the O-rings were pinched or damaged during instalation. As hard as they are to place correctly in the block, I could see how that could happen. If you liners seem to not be pitted, and clean up good on the ouside, with no lip at the top, I'd just clean up the cross hatch, put in new o-rings, and put the bogger back together. It will more than likely fix it. Plus if you do it yourself, and it doesn't fix it, you are only out a couple houndred dollars. Also if you do need liners, check NAPA for them, because I think you can still just get liners by themselves, even though Deere wants to sell piston liner sets. Then you just buy the rings for your existing pistons. I wouldn't plug it up if I were running it like that, I'd just check the coolant constantly, like everytime I used it, until I could get it fixed. Good luck, Greg H.

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Bobduck

01-03-2002 14:06:37




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 Re: Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Greg H., 01-03-2002 13:18:52  
Thanks for the input Greg.

Unfortinately, it leaks pretty fast. I'd guess it would drain the whole cooling system in a half hour.

Interestingly enough, this leak came on very suddenly.

My neighbor was over to plow snow and we started the tractor and let it warm up for about 10 minutes while we stood talking. We were standing right where the weep holes are located and I'm sure we would have noticed if it were leaking then since there was fresh snow on the ground.

He started plowing and I followed him in my car to watch the snowplow work and look for any problems. He plowed about a half mile and we stopped to talk. We were standing beside the tractor and suddenly noticed the leak. I would estimate it was leaking at a rate of 1/2 to 1 gallon per minute. At any rate, we lost enough coolant for the engine to overheat just driving it back to the house.

So this leak started some where in that half mile of road and developed over a period of not over ten minutes.

I'm not sure what to make of this leak developing so fast and of such large volume so quickly.

B'duck

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Greg H.

01-04-2002 09:02:34




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 Re: Re: Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Bobduck, 01-03-2002 14:06:37  
I don't know Bobduck, I've never heard of them leaking that fast. When our 64 3020 started weaping, it was just a little trickle, that probobly wouldn't leak a gallon all day, and we ran it until after hay season, when we got a chance to replace the O-rings. I've also seen a couple other deeres that just "weeped", never pouring out of the hole as you described your tractor did. I hope it's not something block related. Good Luck, Greg H.

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JDJIM

01-03-2002 13:16:12




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 Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Bobduck, 01-03-2002 11:15:25  
Do you know how long ago the overhaul , meaning time not hours , was done ? Also is there any way of finding what kind of parts were used ie. genuine JD kit or aftermarket parts . I had some problems with the O rings on some after market sleeve & piston kits , I always use genuine JD O rings when installing sleeves . If you guys can work on this yourselves I'd take it apart , you can see the condition of the sleeves , if they are pitted you'll have to replace them proably best to get new sleeves and pistons , if not clean them up , clean the grooves in the block , all three of them , put new O rings in and put her back together . If you have to take it to the shop , with their high priced labor it'l probably be better to do a complete overhaul . I'm always looking for the cheapest way to go on something like that that you don't put too many hours on . Whatever you do DO NOT PLUG the weep holes because the coolant will eventually end up in the crankcase . JIM

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Brad

01-04-2002 05:51:19




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 Re: Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to JDJIM, 01-03-2002 13:16:12  
We've had numerous 4010/4020's, a few of them have seeped Antifreeze out the weep holes, our local dealer who i feel is very good, recomended using a piece of wood and plugging the hole, and keeping and eye on the oil. There is still the 2nd oring to seal it, adn as long as you don't contaminate the oil you're ok.



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Randy

01-03-2002 14:54:57




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 Re: Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to JDJIM, 01-03-2002 13:16:12  
I don't think I would worry about using genuine
JD parts. The last time I bought some JD parts
for a disc, the wrapper said genuine JD parts, the back of the wrapper said, made in Korea. That'show genuine they are. A lot of JD parts are made out of the country as I'm sure other Co. parts are too. So genuine means that the color of paint is the same.



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JDJIM

01-03-2002 15:30:38




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 Re: Re: Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Randy, 01-03-2002 14:54:57  
I meant I use only JD O rings , I guess I didn't make myself clear on that . I have no problem with other parts . Reason I said that is because I had problems with the O rings that came with M&W sleeves several years ago , they leaked right away , another set from Sealed Power , sleeve seemed to go in too easy so I got the Deere O rings seemed to fit tighter so since then when I put sleeves in no matter what brand I used the ones from Deere , had no problems since . Using other overhaul kits doesn't bother me a bit .

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Gord

01-04-2002 10:32:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to JDJIM, 01-03-2002 15:30:38  
If you are losing that much anti-freeze out of the engine then the top o-ring is damaged. The top o-ring is resistant to anti-freeze but the bottom o-ring is not. So if you plug the weep hole the bottom o-ring will eventually fail and engine damage will be the result. With only 1800 hours of use on the engine the pistons and sleeves do not need to be replaced but have to be marked so they go back into the block in the same way that they came out. Also when re-installing the sleeves, install three o-rings in the block grooves not just two which was the original configuration. The rod bolts also have to be replaced-DO NOT reuse the rod bolts!!

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mike

01-03-2002 13:07:21




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 Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Bobduck, 01-03-2002 11:15:25  
I would get a local mechanic to tear it apart,
(would be a lot cheaper than Deere),more than
likely you just need O rings.Usually if the sleeve is corroded,the water would go into the
oil.John deere did sell plugs for the weep holes.
That's what the hole is for,if the top O ring
leaks the water goes out the hole,if the bottom
Oring leaks you'll see oil.I've got one tore
apart now that was overhauled 30 years ago,not
used a lot,and the orings are coming apart,but
the sleeves look good.

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Don

01-03-2002 12:23:45




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 Re: 4010 Weep Hole Question in reply to Bobduck, 01-03-2002 11:15:25  
Your dealer has advised you correctly. The sleeves have corroded due to high frequency vibration. You can plug the holes and watch the oil for coolant,however you run the risk of the block deteriateing to the point of needing replaced.This is a hard deceision due to the short hours of use.Don



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