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HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock

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JD60

11-16-2001 09:08:36

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In regards to my 60 shaking/vibration/knock, they have looked at the flywheel and it doesn't move to the human push/pull, the bolts are tight, but they measured the back lash and found about .023".
Is this where the problem is? What should be the back lash (crank spline to wheel spline)? If this area sounds to be OK, do we now look for loose rod bearings??? Thanks for all your input!!!!!

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Eugene swia

11-17-2001 06:15:05

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Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to JD60, 11-16-2001 09:08:36

Wish I would have posted earlier you have a worn drive disc that some one has been messing with. There are under size one's available if the crankshaft splines are'nt worn bad. Have'nt tried one yet but need to. Later, Gene

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JD60

11-17-2001 20:55:47

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Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to Eugene swia, 11-17-2001 06:15:05

Gene, Yes, this part stands out as a suspect. So far I have questioned this part and the mechnic has made the statement that it was alright. Well after putting in new facings, bearing, and fork (was broken), checked the flywheel and it is tight to the human hand. I am left to beleive that you may be right..otherwise, its off to the internal pieces of the puzzle.
Clooney made the comment if the pulley wheel wobbles while clutch is disengaged, there maybe a crank problem...but I don't know if its crank spline problem he was refering to or something else. Sounds like you know for sure..I hope you're right I understand they are about $150..
And since I questioned the drive disc. condition, I shouldn't have to pay for the labor to install it. Well, if you have more info. to share, I sure appreciate it. Thanks!!!

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Don

11-16-2001 14:18:32

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Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to JD60, 11-16-2001 09:08:36

If you are seeing backlash between the crankshaft and the flywheel you have a major problem .Loose flywheels will knock and sound like it's on the clutch side, if it's loose enough could cause a vibration. Also check the clutch driver for proper timeing .Don

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Clooney

11-16-2001 10:01:16

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Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to JD60, 11-16-2001 09:08:36

JD60, by backlash do you mean crank end play? If so .023" is a little higher than spec but well within reason & shouldn't cause a noise. If you are talking about a different backlash (you mentioned crank to (fly?)wheel spline) if the splines were that loose the flywheel would move & probably have fallen off by now. If the flywheel is tight your problem is somewhere else & you really should check the rod & main bearings.

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JD60

11-16-2001 18:55:22

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Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to Clooney, 11-16-2001 10:01:16

Clooney....The .023" is movment of the flywheel/crank as if you are pulling it to yourself. The flywheel has been wiggled, turned to and fro, I am told there is no movement between the wheel and the crank shaft. So unfortunatly, sounds like the next move is the rod bearings. Although the mechnic says there is no problem with the dics drive, someone has done some welding on it, so there is a little sloop between the shaft splines and the dics. drive splines. but the claim is its not it. They don't see anything wrong with that part. Would the rod bearings cause such a shake at 1/3 throttle and above?? This is a major difference in the way the tractor sounds/shakes bad. When the clutch cover is off, it looks like the shaft bolt has a lot of run out..Thanks for the help.....

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Clooney

11-16-2001 20:36:44

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Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to JD60, 11-16-2001 18:55:22

JD60, "there is a little slop between the shaft splines and the dics. drive splines", are you saying the clutch driver is loose on the crank splines? If so you probably have found the problem there....The flywheel (crankshaft) end play of .023" sounds acceptable (that's what I thought you meant on your original post)...Loose rod bearings don't usually by themselves cause a vibration but can compound an existing vibration & add the "surround sound" effect to a vibration. That welded clutch driver bothers me but the bolt runout doesn't by itself mean much (how does the clutch pulley look when it is disengaged with the engine running?) If it wobbles while not turning & the engine is running suspect a crank problem. I'm beginning to think you need to find a different repair facility as the one you are using doesn't seem to know what they are doing. What State do you live in? Maybe we can recommend a better (more caring) repair facility. I would normally suspect your clutch driver is installed incorrectly but you stated the vibration started during tractor use & those things don't just move by themselves.

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JD60

11-17-2001 06:07:16

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Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to Clooney, 11-16-2001 20:36:44

Clooney, Thanks for staying with me. I,m from michigan. With the tractor running/clutch NOT engaged the pulley seems to wobble a little, even when its engaged. I thought that might be from the "repaired" drive disc. I am getting depressed. Another thing, I don't know how long the tractor was used with the flywheel loose. I'm starting to think I bought a lemon. I wonder how much a crank, rod/main bearings and etc. is going to cost. The tractor is worth it, it is in good looking condition. I hate spending the money...now if I have to replace all that, I should go a litle further and put new sleeves in, and new rings,(pistons?). I'm not a great mechanic (thats why I beleive in preventitive maintance). How difficult and complex will replacing a crank all those other things be? I can't throw $600 in labor at it. Well, have a good week end!!!

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JD60

11-17-2001 06:13:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to JD60, 11-17-2001 06:07:16

Clooney, when you say crank problems, do you mean splines or bent crank??

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Clooney

11-17-2001 06:44:39

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to JD60, 11-17-2001 06:13:37

JD60, you could possibly have both types of crank problems?..... .We are throwing a lot of things around here & probably should get back to basics. When you purchased the tractor did it have the vibration & knock?-- You stated it started after PTO work?-- You had the clutch worked on with no help?-- Was it better, worse or no change after clutch work?-- You stated the tractor was run with a loose flywheel, by you or a previous owner?..... ..... .... It probably wouldn't hurt to re-post the problem & repair history with ALL the detail you can furnish..... ..Where in Michigan are you located & who did you have do the clutch work?

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JD60

11-17-2001 21:19:48

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to Clooney, 11-17-2001 06:44:39

Clooney, I looked at the tractor and listened to it run. After starting it up it shook. I told the owner I wasn't interested because the way it shook and rattled. They told me they could take care of it by tightening up the flywheel. The next day I went to see if they took care of it. And the shake was gone, the thing sounded fine, except, there was a sshhh sound at the pulley wheel (it had a little wobble to it) that seemed to occur in one spot in the rotation. I questioned it and they thought the ssh sound was from some rust on the facings, and that it would go away with use. I first used the tractor with a back blade to move small amounts of dirt, then used it to push snow. Early this summer I bought a finish mower (new) and started to mow my 5 acre lawn. I changed the oil very regular (SAE30 Valoline) and some time in late augest when I shut down and finished I noticed the major shake was back along with a knocking sound when the engine fired hard under a loading condition (bump in the terain), so I figured it was the flywheel again, since I didn't have any bigger sized wrenches, I drove it softly to a repair shope which is only 1 mile from my house, requested that the flywheel be tightened. They decided it was coming from the clutch, and began to replaced the facings, bearing/seals, fork, clips. After opening it up, they called me in, and showed me the drive disc., and there was a great deal of welding on the inside, it was a mess, there was hardly any splines there at all, the crank and splines at a quick glance seemed OK. I asked them if it was the problem, they said no, I said are you sure, they said if I don't work it, it should be alright. I am no mechanic (I design electronics circuits), the amount of shake or vibration energy that I hear and feel has to be something of great weight ie. flywheel or drive dics.?, I just can't imagine rod/main bearings causing so much shake, noise yes. So what do you think, (sorry so long). I live near in the thumb of michigan. Thanks again....

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Clooney

11-18-2001 06:53:35

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to JD60, 11-17-2001 21:19:48

JD60, it is sounding more & more like you have a serious problem with the clutch driver & possibly the crankshaft splines. If the driver splines are worn like you say it is possible the driver was loose enough to have slipped a spline or two & is now out of phase with the flywheel (will cause an engine shake). The big question now is if the crankshaft is bent or the splines are worn or repaired evenly or worn un-evenly. If the crank is worn or repaired un-evenly even a new undersized drive disk won't repair the problem. This is compounded by the "sshhh sshhh" sound you heard as that is probably the pulley hitting the dust shield because the driver goes on the crankshaft too far. Because of the pulley wobble & other factors you need to have someone that is knowledgeable of the clutch/crankshaft area on a 2 cylinder J.D. take a look at it to see if investing in a new undersized driver is going to solve your problem.

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jd60

11-19-2001 12:18:28

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to Clooney, 11-18-2001 06:53:35

Clooney, talked with the shop and their going to reopen the clutch area and I think they'er going to look at the crank run out (dial-indicator) and review/measure the crank splines and drive disc. Also, a person from Bad Axe Thumb 2 cylinder club member) has been contacted and will take a look at the parts. Let you know how it goes.

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Clooney

11-19-2001 12:43:46

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to jd60, 11-19-2001 12:18:28

jd60, it sounds like you are headed in the right direction, at least you will be able to eliminate the clutch as the problem. Measuring the crankshaft splines & runout will tell you if a new underdized driver will work or if you will have to go in farther.

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JD60

11-19-2001 13:50:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to Clooney, 11-19-2001 12:43:46

Clooney, Just remember, there seems to be alittle very little) wobble in the pulley wheel either egaged or not. But I am keeping my fingers crossed. Hopefully that is caused from the woop of the drive disc. But i do remember the splines being clean with sharp edges. Couple of days and I will go take a look. I try and get a digital camera. Thanks!!!

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Mike Aylward

11-17-2001 18:58:19

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to Clooney, 11-17-2001 06:44:39

Guys, I have been reading your posts and if the drive disk has been welded on like you say I am wondering if the crank has had the same treatment. Doing this could warp the end of the crankshaft and compound the problems on this tractor. It sounds like someone did a "get-by" job on this thing and now the day of reckoning has come. Mike

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JD60

11-17-2001 21:27:15

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to Mike Aylward, 11-17-2001 18:58:19

Mike, Are you thinking replacement of the drive disc. and the crank....yikes....sounds expensive.
Well I did write earlier about the bolt at the end of the crank shaft on the pulley side looking like it had run out. What a head ache. Thanks for posting.

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Mike

11-16-2001 10:12:25

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Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to Clooney, 11-16-2001 10:01:16

On a G if the clutch assembly is not replaced correctly you won't be able to hold onto the steering wheel due to the vibrations, but that shouldn't cause a knock

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JD60

11-16-2001 10:33:19

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Re: Re: Re: HEY CLOONEY/60 Shake/Vibration/Knock in reply to Mike, 11-16-2001 10:12:25

The story goes..the flywheel was loose about 1 1/2 yrs. ago and was tightened...I was using the tractor with a finsih mower (high revs.) and when I shut the mower off the tractor was very shaky and there was a mdeium knock sound coming from the clutch area, esepcially when it fired hard(engine loading)...but I will take note of what you have wrote. Thanks!!!!

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