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Wico X coil in a Wico C mag

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andy

10-25-2001 12:17:01




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is it possible to use the hot coil from a wico X mag in a wico C mag ive been told they are very similar and i havent been getting the spark i had when i bought the tractor (36 B)




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John T (Robert Beaver please respond)

10-25-2001 18:53:18




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 Re: Wico X coil in a Wico C mag in reply to andy, 10-25-2001 12:17:01  
Andy, I agree with my good friend clooney that due to the physical and size differences, I probably would not try to use an X coil in a C mag. However, I respectfully disagree as to the benefits of the "HOT" coil that Robert Beavers sells. Its true that the coils secondary voltage will rise no higher than necessary to jump the plug gap BUT the spark consists of the necessary voltage PLUS a certain amount of arcing current (the current is what ignites the fuel and what you see) which, if higher (due to maybe a more energy efficient coil), produces more spark energy to better ignite the fuel. The voltage (regular OR hot coil) is only as high as necessary to jump the plug gap, BUT if the HOT coil produces more arcing current (fatter hotter more surface area arc) it would better ignite the fuel in my opinion. I have used them and believe them to be better, but have made no actual measurements of their curent output versus the regualar coil. My theory (to work) ASSUMES the hot coil is more energy efficient and has superior mutual inductive coupling thereby producing more curent and less waste heat. Good Question and fun discussion. Thats my story and Im sticking to it lol. Good luck Ol John T

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Clooney

10-26-2001 14:34:44




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 Re: Re: Wico X coil in a Wico C mag in reply to John T (Robert Beaver please respond), 10-25-2001 18:53:18  
John T, I hear your argument on higher arcing current & if you are talking about an electronic ignition I will buy that, higher current is one of the big advantages of electronic ignition systems. But since we are talking about a magneto with a limited primary input due to the magnetic rotor generated primary current & a point controlled switching system I still don't believe there is any gain to be had with a high output coil for a stock engine. Almost anyway you look at it a point type system can only handle about 4 amps at the points without them burning & that depends on a perfectly matched condenser, we already agree that the secondary voltage is basically determined by plug gap & the points & condenser must carry the current of the other end of that secondary circuit so the arcing current is pretty well limited by the points ability to handle the current. In electronic ignition systems the switching circuit (usually a transistor ) can handle upwards of 7.5 amps & that allows an electronic system to use heavier primary windings with more current flow for a much higher current & voltage in the secondary side when the transistor opens. That is why an electronic ignition system uses a different & usually much higher output coil. One of the reasons I don't personally recommend the high output coil is the fact it probably needs a higher output rotor & different & matched condenser & wider plug gap to gain anything & the point wear will increase if it actually did do anything..... ... I (should say we) tried a dyno test about 4 years ago using a late stock? "A" & couldn't really make a determination. The tractor was run on a PTO driven dyno & had a Wico X with a "hot coil" (not from Roberts though) the only problem was it was run early in the afternoon with warm dry air & after some discussion about coils & some speculation about "hot coils" we decided to install a brand new stock coil (was actually bought that day) in the tractor, to keep things as consistent as possible the coil was swapped without removing the mag, the only problem it was much later in the day before it got back on the same dyno & by that time the weather was cooler & a little damper. After a warm up run the stock coil actually showed a slight power gain & that led to more speculation with some claiming "coil" & some of us claming weather so basically as far as I'm concerned we proved nothing.

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John T

10-27-2001 11:29:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Wico X coil in a Wico C mag in reply to Clooney, 10-26-2001 14:34:44  
Wow great discussion clooney, Im enjoying it even if no others are lol. Sure we agree on electronic ignitions and their higher voltage to jump a wider gap etc. Im only maintaining that IF the so called HOT coils are what theyre cracked up to be and are indeed more energy efficient and have a greater mutual indutance and superior windings and insulations and better materials in general, THEN given the same energy input (the passing magnet) when they do jump the plug gap, they will expend more energy (more amps) across the gap, thereby having betetr capacity to ignite the fuel air mixture. If all else is the same but the so called HOT coil is more efficient and passes more energy to the secondary and less waste heat, then the arc is of higher amperage and energy which I still believe is beteter than the same gaps arc at a lower amperage. The way to test them (hot versus regular) would be to measure their transformer efficiency. Enjoyed this Ol John T

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Clooney

10-25-2001 13:21:37




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 Re: Wico X coil in a Wico C mag in reply to andy, 10-25-2001 12:17:01  
Andy, I suppose it's possible but probably not needed as the stock C coil has more KV than your (STOCK) system needs. The coil won't produce any higher KV than the plugs & system resistance need to jump the plug gap. The coil center core is different & the coil output contact is in a different place on the C & X coil. I have run a Wico C coil in an X & had to solder a contact brass to the C coil to make it work & the C core is smaller & has to be shimmed to work in the X. If you go the other way it will be harder if not impossible to get the bigger core in the C. I run the standard coil in ALL my tractors as I personally don't believe the extra money spent on the high output coil is worth it. You would be way farther ahead to use the money saved on the high output coil to have the rotor re-magnetized at Roberts Carb as that will help the spark more than the HO coil will on a stock engine.

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