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JD A oil

Detergent or Nondetergent

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Dave A

10-10-2001 07:28:50

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This may have been discussed before, however, I am new to this site. My JD manual does not say to use detergent or nondetergent oil. What is the current recommendation?

Also, what weight of oil is recommended for the crankcase and transmission?

Thanks for your input, Dave

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Mike Aylward

10-11-2001 06:20:15

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Re: JD A oil - Detergent or Nondetergent in reply to Dave A, 10-10-2001 07:28:50

Dave, there are a lot of theories about detergent vs. non-detergent oil. I have always believed that an engine functions best when it is clean on the inside. I have gotten many tractors in that had almost a half inch of sludge in the crankcase (and that's not just in the bottom of the sump, but on everything). The best thing to do is open up the crankcase cover after the oil is drained and scrape out all the sludge you can, then fill the crankcase a little over full with half oil and half diesel fuel. Install a new oil filter before you put in this mixture. I then belt the tractor up to another tractor (don't run it with this mixture in it) and let it stir for a little while. Drain this mixture while the sludge is still floating and if necessary, do it again. It is also wise to check the oil pump inlet screen at this time. It may be necessary to do this a second time, but usually two times will clean it up nicely with no harm done to the engine. I farm for a living in addition to working on these old tractors and use the same oil in these tractors that I do in my farm tractors. This is a high detergent oil with a diesel rating, which will keep the crankcase clean. These tractors aren't working as hard as they were designed to do and without being ran as warm as they need to be they need all the ability to resist sludge that they can get. Otherwise they will get sludged up again very quickly. Clean up the inside of the tractor and keep it clean. You will be better off in the long run. Mike

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RayP(MI)

10-10-2001 19:35:52

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Re: JD A oil - Detergent or Nondetergent in reply to Dave A, 10-10-2001 07:28:50

If you choose to go from non-detergent to detergent, best if you do a couple of oil changes at really short intervals, as the oil will quickly become contaminated with all the stuff that has built up over the years.

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10-10-2001 17:43:02

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Re: JD A oil - Detergent or Nondetergent in reply to Dave A, 10-10-2001 07:28:50

In my 49 A I run straight 30 detergent oil in the engine,80-90 in the trans, and straight 30 non detergent in the hyd, if you run 30 detergent in the hyd it tends to foam up.

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Clooney

10-10-2001 13:30:07

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Re: JD A oil - Detergent or Nondetergent in reply to Dave A, 10-10-2001 07:28:50

Dave, you didn't say what year "A" you have? Depending on the year, your manual might mention the use of detergent oil, only not by that name. Early detergent oil was called "HD" or "Heavy Duty" & was referred to in some manuals. My personal recommendation would be to use the type of oil that has been used in it in the past. While the new detergent oils are better oils than the old non-detergent type if the tractor has always used non-detergent oil & you install detergent oil you will need to do many filter & oil changes in close order to remove all the crud that the detergent oil will break loose. If you have an unstyled "A" you probably should use at least straight 30 weight & probably even 40 weight in the summer & 20 weight in the winter (if you want it to start). While the use of 10W30 won't hurt it, it is a little thin for sustained hard use & due to the big cold sumps on 2 cyl J.D.s will stay at 10 weight for a very long time after start-up & trying to keep 10W30 oil in an unstyled tractor is like trying to keep it in a paper bag (it will work good for a short time but oil leaks will start to appear from almost everywhere in short order)....If you don't know what type of oil was used in the tractor before you bought it you might want to pull the crankcase cover (after draining the oil) & see how much crud is in the sump & around the oil pump pick-up, if it is fairly clean inside it probably was using detergent oil, if it is full of crud it was either using non-detergent oil or wasn't changed when it should have been & in that case it should be cleaned out inside anyway. That way if you switch to detergent oil it won't break as much loose & you will start with a clean sump..... Glen, has got you covered on the trans oil.

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MikeH-Tx

10-10-2001 15:22:27

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Re: Re: JD A oil - Detergent or Nondetergent in reply to Clooney, 10-10-2001 13:30:07

Clooney, I know discussing oil is like discussing religion, but you said something I thought was the opposite. Set me straight.

I thought multi-viscosity oils had pretty steady viscosities versus temperature. The reason they are called 10w-30, for example is that when hot they act like 30 weight oil. When cold they are about the same as hot, so act like a thinner variety of "normal" oil, or 10 weight in this case. In your example you talked about 10w-30 being at 10 weight for too long. If 30w is the right oil then cold 30w should be good for it too, since it is the same viscosity. I thought the main reason for multi-viscosity oils was to avoid turning the oil into "honey" at low temperatures.

What is wrong with this thought process?

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Clooney

10-10-2001 15:59:47

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Re: Re: Re: JD A oil - Detergent or Nondetergent in reply to MikeH-Tx, 10-10-2001 15:22:27

Mike, you might as well have asked me to explain the meaning of life.....Multi-weight oils (e.g. - 10W-40) are made possible by adding polymers to oil. The polymers allow the oil to have different weights at different temperatures. The first number indicates the viscocity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 212 degrees F the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 10W-40 as a 10 weight oil that will not thin more than a 40 weight would when hot. If this doesn't add confusion I don't know what will.

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Dave A

10-10-2001 14:52:51

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Re: Re: JD A oil - Detergent or Nondetergent in reply to Clooney, 10-10-2001 13:30:07

Thanks Clooney and G. Taylor. It is a 1951 and I bought it used. I have no idea what has been used in it before. I"m sure that it would be a good idea to pull the crankcase cover and look at what is in there. The JD dealer that I talked to said to use 30W in the crankcase and 90W in the transmission. But he did not specify det. or nondet. My Owners Manual said to use 20W in the crankcase and 140W in the transmission. However, that was 50 years ago.

Thanks for your help. I thought that you modern day experts would know best for these old horses.

Dave A

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G Taylor

10-10-2001 10:57:02

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Re: JD A oil - Detergent or Nondetergent in reply to Dave A, 10-10-2001 07:28:50

Detergent. Straight 30 or 10W30 for the engine. GL1 type, 140 weight for the trans. Manuals are great to have but often are misplaced. They are avalable from this site in the MarketPlace.

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