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Further help with 70 clutch

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Pete

10-07-2001 17:39:28




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Clooney, Thanks for the help you gave Dad yesterday on the 70 clutch, unfortunately we are still stumped. The fork is in the operating groove, and all seems assembled correctly, here are the symptoms; in order to be able to have the clutch engage positively with out slipping, we have to adjust the adjusters down so far that the clutch simply will not disengage. When the clutch is adjusted this tightly, you cannot shift. It seems that there is not a full range of movement. The dogs, toggles, pins, adjusting bolts, springs, fiber discs, and pressure plate are all new. Three things come to mind; the new toggles were about 1/16" longer than the old ones, I figured this was due to wear, and the toggles had a hole(grease retainer?) in one end, none of my manuals specified which way the go, so I figured that the end that goes in the cup on the dogs would get more movement, filled the holes with Moly G and put them in that way. Could thay be in backward, and would that cause a problem? Would the extra length cause a problem.
One other possibility that I wonder about; could the drive gear not be pressed on far enough? I haven't seen any measurement to check this, but it appears to be in the same place it was before we pulled it off ( it is pressed on as far as the 75 ton air press would press it,) so i guess I'm screwed if this is the problem.
I appreciate the help, I am about to throw up my hands for the first time on this tractor, and take it to a repair shop, problem is this, even the techs at our local JD dealer give ya that "thousand yard stare" when you mention having them work on a 2 cylinder. I work at a Case dealer who services just about anything that gets brought in, our svc. mgr said "Pete if you can't figure it out, none of our guys will be able to, go to a Deere dealer!

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John Henry

10-09-2001 16:02:03




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 Re: Further help with 70 clutch in reply to Pete, 10-07-2001 17:39:28  
I had the same problem with my 530 upon reassembling the clutch. Might no be the same cause that you are looking for but here my two cents worth. Check the fixed clutch drive disc for wear on the tapered splines. Mine apparently had been loose on the splines and had worn them a bit. When you tighten the crankshaft end bolt it compresses the inner clutch facing making it hard if not impossible to dissengage the clutch. Regardless of how I adjusted the adjustment nuts.About drove me nuts. I diagnosed mine mine by slipping shim stock (.005) into each spline and tightening the end bolt. That held the drive disc where it belonged and the clutch has worked fine ever since. Hope this helps if other possibilities dont. John Henry

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Gman

10-08-2001 19:31:09




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 Re: Further help with 70 clutch in reply to Pete, 10-07-2001 17:39:28  
Pete I tore my 70 LPSTD clutch apart and put it back together,there is one thing that hasn't been mentioned that you might look into is,there is a dowl in the drum itself that protrudes toward the operating sleeve,there is a hole in the sleeve that this dowl goes up in when you got clutch action. Is it possible that in reassembly that you didn't aligne the hole in operating sleeve with the dowl pin,thus not getting the proper travel on the operating sleeve to operate the clutch. Gmans two cents worth

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Pete

10-08-2001 16:44:58




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 Re: Further help with 70 clutch in reply to Pete, 10-07-2001 17:39:28  
Don, Jack, and Clooney, I will be back into her tomorrow, and will let ya know...I certainly appreciate the help, it's driving me nuts, hafta take the whole assy. to work to pull and press the drive gear, as my pullers and press just aren't up to the job. I'm hoping it's Jack's idea that works, 'cause I won't have to pull the gear AGAIN! Thanks again. Pete



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Jack

10-08-2001 10:15:32




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 Re: Further help with 70 clutch in reply to Pete, 10-07-2001 17:39:28  
I have been right where your are at and got real frustrated with it.That clutch drive gear on mine was pressed flush with the bushing.I had to hire mine done,because I did not have nothing big enough to do it with.New dogs and toggles fixed my 70 but there is someting else to check.I have a G that would not engage in with the clutches tight and when I loosened them to where it snapped it slipped terribly bad.I found cracks in my clutch engagement shaft(splintered like a toothpick).It was flexing on me everytime I tried the clutch.I found one and installed it and my problem was solved.Hope you the best Pete.Jack(TN).

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Clooney

10-07-2001 18:45:42




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 Re: Further help with 70 clutch in reply to Pete, 10-07-2001 17:39:28  
Pete, the grease hole in the toggle goes in the hole in the sleeve. I don't think that is your problem though. 1/16" is a big difference in the toggle length. I think I would try the old toggles to see if that makes a difference. How did the clutch work before you put all the new parts in? The way you say it is acting it sounds like the clamp load on the clutch disk(s) is way too high as the toggles goes over center & too weak once they get over center. Is the drive pin that drives the operating sleeve fairly tight where it runs through the operating sleeve? (the toggles must be somewhat straight & not leaning to one side to work correctly). Does the operating sleeve go all the way to touch the pulley with the clutch engaged? I don't think it is possible but is there any chance the operating sleeve is installed backwards?..As for taking it to a J.D. dealer, unless it is a very special J.D. dealer I doubt they know as much about that 2 cyl clutch as you do. Most will just throw parts at it until it works & that will be a big repair bill. There isn't much to those clutches & you should be able to get it working yourself. You should start at the beginning & make sure everything is installed in the correct order & the parts are correct for your tractor. There is a spec sheet out there somewhere that gives the length on the toggles, the only problem is I don't have a copy & don't know where there is one. Are the holes in the pulley casting for the dog pins worn oblong or way oversized as the placement of those pins determine when the toggles go over center & how much height they retain after the toggles go over center. One last thought, there was a service procedure to machine .020-.030" from the outer end of the operating sleeve to compensate for worn holes in the sleeve, worn toggles & worn dogs & if that procedure has been preformed on your tractor I don't know that will effect the operation of you clutch with new parts, if the sleeve moves out too far the clutch clamp pressure starts to fall way off (e.g. slip)....Any other questions just re-post or E-Mail..... .Post the problem found once you find it so we all can get smarter.

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Pete

10-07-2001 19:17:50




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 Re: Re: Further help with 70 clutch in reply to Clooney, 10-07-2001 18:45:42  
Clooney, Thanks, some new things to check, I will try with the old toggles agin. The pins are new and the holes are fairly good,(truth is I probably didn't need to replace anything except the discs, but I don't like to have to go where I;ve already been...looks like I mighta outsmarted myself huh?) Thanks again, and I;ll keep ya posted. pete



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DP

10-07-2001 21:37:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Further help with 70 clutch in reply to Pete, 10-07-2001 19:17:50  
Don't know if this will help Pete, but recently worked on my uncle's 530 that locked in and wouldn't release after he had tightened the clutch bolts a notch. When I got it home and loosened the adjusting bolts, it seemed to work fine. I removed and disassenbled everything. The alignment pin was good but the sleeve where the toggles ran past had ware spots from rubbing. I got new dogs and toggles, as they showed wear, and installed them to see how much differance they made. (Thought I might have to replace the sleeve too!) Also the sleeve seemed to catch in one spot. I removed and could find no reason for that. I cleaned the adjusting bolts and they had a small groove on one side. I reassembled everything putting the adjusting bolts back 1/2 turn off the way they were. Also greased everything good. Once back together it worked good. This is still a working tractor. I really felt the sleeve should have been replaced too, but he was satisified the way it is. It works good, but the toggle holes are getting borderline deep. I thought when I took this apart, I would find the alignment ear on the sleeve wore bad or broken. Good luck to you. Don

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