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Can't figure out Model 70 hydraulics

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Putt Putt

08-24-2001 13:10:21




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I�m having trouble figuring out the hydraulics on my JD70. It works fine with a remote cylinder. It�s rock shaft operation that doesn�t work. I can�t seem to shut off the hydraulic to the hoses. If the rock shaft is back (or down) I can get it to raise once with no problem. The rock shaft assembly is totally free. Once I have raised it, I have to shut off the pump and release the system so that the rock shaft can be brought back to the down position. I�ve gone over the JD Hydraulic Manual and the Owners Manual. Neither addresses what I think may be my problem. Instead of removing the two plugs in back (one is open and the other is metered), someone has removed the plugs on the right side of the unit and accessed the same orifices. The hoses are tapped out the right side and hang from there. I�ve seen this before. I�m not sure why it is done, nor if this has anything to do with the rock shaft not working. I am sure that this tractor was used with a rock shaft articulated cultivator before I bought it. There must be some way to go back and forth with my setup.

John Deere suggests that one or both of the plugs (in the rear) should be solid when using the rock shaft. One of mine is open and the other one is metered (I have it closed at the moment). Reversing these plugs just locks up the system, entirely.

Anybody seen this setup? It was fairly common around here 40 years ago. All the old timers have gone on and I�m up against more that I can figure out. Any help would sure be welcome.

Thanks ahead.

Putt Putt

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Here's the answer.......

09-04-2001 16:43:04




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 Re: Can't figure out Model 70 hydraulics in reply to Putt Putt, 08-24-2001 13:10:21  
See this page at Todd's Tractor Pages website....
http://www.jd40.com/bulletins/september1953/ptrol.htm



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buckeye al

08-27-2001 14:54:49




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 Re: Can't figure out Model 70 hydraulics in reply to Putt Putt, 08-24-2001 13:10:21  
Used this same system on my 46 A for MANY years. Will go look when I get home tonight just to be sure but if I recall correctly for rock shaft operation, the valved plug can be in either hole but it MUST BE OPEN! To use the remote in a double acting mode, the valved plug must be in the top hole and the valve must be closed.

I don't think you'll find anything on the use of this "special plug" in any Deere operating manual because I don't believe the "special plug" was a Deere part! Many dealers sold them but I think they were an after market part. By using this plug & taking oil from the pipe plugs out the side, you could install a quick attach type (like Pioneer) couplers that stopped oil loss when the drawn implement (usually a plow) un-hitched after hitting a rock or roots. With the Deere original system, you only had enough oil to endure two drops. So much oil is lost when the hoses pull out (from both the tractor & the plow cylinder) that if you un-hitched a third time you ususally did not have enough oil left to raise the plow when you got to the end of the furrow. It was not ideal but it saved keeping an oil jug on the platform if plowing rocky ground. BTDT!

Adjust your throttle and drop valves according to the book. Hope this helps.

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Craig

08-28-2001 19:30:08




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 Re: Re: Can't figure out Model 70 hydraulics in reply to buckeye al, 08-27-2001 14:54:49  
The special plug with the valve is a Deere part.It is shown in my JD B parts book. Last time I checked at Deere a couple years ago it cost $55.
I have some OFFICIAL Deere information about that special plug here somewhere but don't remember where it was and can not find it right now.



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Putt Putt

08-27-2001 17:47:13




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 Re: Re: Can't figure out Model 70 hydraulics in reply to buckeye al, 08-27-2001 14:54:49  
Thanks for the reply Al. This starts to sound like what I may be dealing with. Without further complicating the story, I do have that type of coupling. It�s kind of late tonight. I�ll try out your theory tomorrow. I kept that valve closed and I can�t even say why. I changed just about everything else, but not that one. If you find anything further I�d like to know, but I sure do appreciate the advice. Thanks a million.
Putt Putt

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buckeye al

08-28-2001 13:59:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Can't figure out Model 70 hydraulics in reply to Putt Putt, 08-27-2001 17:47:13  
That's what works on my A. For rock shaft operation, either hole, valve open! If you always had it closed, with it in the top hole the rock shaft would raise but not fall. Hydraulics would just growl through the relief valve. If you had it in the bottom hole but closed, rockshaft won't raise. Just growls through the relief valve. Moving the operating handle to drop & it's happy, no noise but no action either.
Best thing is put it in the top hole, open for rock shaft, closed for remote. You can simulate the "special plug" with it's valve closed by using a regular hose coupler with a pipe plug in it instead of a hose.

Later.

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Craig

08-24-2001 20:27:34




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 Re: Can't figure out Model 70 hydraulics in reply to Putt Putt, 08-24-2001 13:10:21  
If I could find my tractor operators manual it would tell me. Do you have a manual? If I remember right, what you are calling the "metered" plug goes in the bottom hole and a "dummy" plug in the top hole. Does that "metered" plug have a cap you can remove and a knurled knob inside to turn? If so, that's the correct plug. It's actually a sort of "selector valve". YOu screw it one way to use the rock shaft and the other way to use the remote cylinder. You can not use the rockshaft and remote cylinder at the same time. I think you need to disconnect the remote cylinder and screw that plug the other way to use the rock shaft. (Your remote cylinder hosed connected in place of the plugs in the side of the valve housing is correct.) If I could find my books I could figure this out for sure.

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Putt Putt

08-25-2001 04:21:42




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 Re: Re: Can't figure out Model 70 hydraulics in reply to Craig, 08-24-2001 20:27:34  
Craig�
Thanks for the reply. I know my explanation was terribly confusing. Yes, I have the Owner�s Manual and John Deere�s Hydraulics Service Manual SM2011. Both describe a metering screw (coming in from the left side of the Powr-Trol housing) which controls the raising speed of the rockshaft. They also mention the throttle valve screw which is found in the rear surface of the housing. It deals with the drop rate of the implement. Both of these are small (3/8� jam nut) and found under hex shaped caps. No adjustment of either of these has made any difference in my case.
What is NOT mentioned is the metered plug that I spoke of in one of the plugs (the upper) that most folks remove to plug in hoses for remote cylinders. It does have a knurled cap and a knurled adjustment knob beneath it. With no instructions available, it�s something of a mystery as to what to do with it. I�m wondering if the hoses coming in on the right side of the unit somehow bypasses something. I know this was done a lot so it�s not just some Rube Goldberg idea.
You raised another, unrelated, question. If you can�t use rockshaft and remote cylinder at the same time, how can a guy run a semi-integral plow, for instance? Or a loader and rear blade?
I don�t know if this makes any more sense than the earlier post or not. I do appreciate any help you can give. I have to leave now (Saturday morning) for a Civil War Re-enactment. I�ll be back Sunday evening. Just so no response from me for a couple of days is not misinterpreted. Thanks again.
Putt Putt

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JD70Jim

08-25-2001 07:21:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Can't figure out Model 70 hydraulics in reply to Putt Putt, 08-25-2001 04:21:42  
The hydraulic powrtrol used on the 70 was originally considered "adequate". Whar you have just said is the reason John Deere improved it, producing "Custom Powrtrol" for the next series of tractors.

Dual valves used to be the "standard" also, but now most new tractors are at least offered with up to four! When "Hydraulic Powrtrol" was standard, everyone used drawn equipment. After the three point hitch became the new "standard" in the mid 50s, semi-integral equipment was developed and became available for it. This was probably a major reason why some farmers traded up from a "70" to a "720" so quickly. It was also a reason why a "70" was not as desireable as a "720" or a "730" on the used market during the 1960s. It didn't have the new type hydraulics.

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