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Gear Noise

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Buster

08-22-2001 11:35:03




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I have a '44 A. When I'm going down the road, I hear a whining type of gear noise (it's not a constant sound, just a "rrr rrr rrr" type of noise). Doesn't matter which gear I'm in. I don't think it's anything at this point to worry about (maybe it is), but maybe I just have a bearing that's loose or something. I was at the Buckley (MI) old engine show this past weekend and didn't notice that sound out of any of the JD tractors running around there. Thanks for any ideas you may have.

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ebolch

08-23-2001 07:29:33




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 Re: Gear Noise in reply to Buster, 08-22-2001 11:35:03  
Buster, I have a 46 A that makes the same noise and I am wondering the same things. It sat for about 15 years before I got it. When I drained the transmission, I got about a gallon of water out of the bottom before the gear oil started flowing, keep up posted as to the results please.



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Buster HEY CLOONEY...

08-23-2001 09:24:05




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 Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to ebolch, 08-23-2001 07:29:33  
My gear oil was orignally milky, so I changed it (would have anyway, who knows how old it might be). Clooney or anyone, can you give us a clue as where we should be looking????



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Clooney

08-24-2001 17:14:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to Buster HEY CLOONEY..., 08-23-2001 09:24:05  
Buster, those old straight cut gears are noisy & any wear on them makes them even noisier then add the new thinner gear oils & they are even noisier then add loose bearings & they get even noisier. You might not have a real problem because of the noise but the milky oil means water was/is present & my guess is the trans, diff & rear axle bearings are pitted from the water. I would pull the L/H diff quill bearing cover & look at the bearing & race, if it is pitted & rusted you will probably need many more bearings & some of those bearings are getting hard to find. I just did a 1937 (A) that had water in the trans & it needed all but one bearing, my cost on just the bearings, races, seals & gaskets was close to $600.00. If you go into that trans you are opening Pandora's box & it will be hard to find a place to stop once you start putting money into it. Seeing as your noise is the same in all gears it is either 1st reduction or from the diff back & from the diff back turns slow so if the noise is slow look there if the noise is faster like pulley speed or a little slower look at the pulley, 1st reduction gear/bearing area. The teeth on the 1st reduction gear are convex when new & as they wear from years of use they become concave & will get very noisy when they become concave due to very poor tooth contact as the gear teeth mesh with the other gear. Shouldn't hurt anything but will be very noisy (see if the noise goes away when you coast down a big hill with the engine being overdriven by the trans, if it does then you probably have gear wear as you will be using the unworn side of the gears).

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jeff

05-25-2003 19:18:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to Clooney, 08-24-2001 17:14:38  
h model jd
clutch slips in 2nd gear only
please help



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gary

08-22-2001 20:24:22




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 Re: Gear Noise in reply to Buster, 08-22-2001 11:35:03  
Buster,
I am no expert, but at the very least I would change the gear oil in the tractor. I would probably even consider rinsing it out with kerosene, and draining that out and replacing it with new gear oil.
When working correctly, believe it or not, these old two cylinders don't whine, screetch, rumble, or shake nearly as much as people think. They actually run quite smoothly. I have a feeling the "rrr, rrr,rr,rrr" noise may soon be followed by a "clanga,clanga,clanga", noise followed buy a clunka,clunka,clunka, followed by a "*&(!!!&^*%$$)" sound.
Good luck, whatever you do.
gary

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Buster

08-23-2001 04:48:38




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 Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to gary, 08-22-2001 20:24:22  
The transmission has been flushed and the oil's been replaced. The sound (more of a whining) seems to come from the area of the large side cover that runs from the pulley to the transmission.



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Ron

08-23-2001 10:34:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to Buster, 08-23-2001 04:48:38  
Not real familiar with an "A" but I have a model "50". Is it possible that there is no grease or too little grease in the reduction gear cover? My "50" needs grease added in that cover separately from the main transmission filler. I would imagine the "A" is similar? I ran a 46 "A" for several hours a couple weeks ago and it had that whining sound also. Maybe it is just characteristic of those old "A"s!

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gary

08-23-2001 13:01:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to Ron, 08-23-2001 10:34:15  
Ron,
Do you know if that would be true for my '48 B also? I don't remember that being part of the maintenance, but I think the 50 and the late "Bs" are pretty similar.
gary



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ron

08-23-2001 14:37:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to gary, 08-23-2001 13:01:48  
gary,

I believe it's the same for a late "B". The reduction gear cover needs the same weight of grease as the main transmission/differential. Reduction gear fill plug is on top near the engine oil fill cap. I think I remember that it takes one quart (can't check right now as my manual is at home and I'm at work)



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Craig - NO NO NO, late B is oiled different than model 50

08-23-2001 20:48:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to ron , 08-23-2001 14:37:55  
On the late B's (and I assume the earlier ones too) the first reduction gears are oiled by OIL MIST from the engine crankcase. There is no crankshaft seal on the clutch side of B engines. Oil freely runs out that bearing and back into a drain hole under the crankshaft. The first reduction gears on a B are NOT oiled by transmission lube. The last of the late B's did add a "drain" and "fill" plugs to the first reduction gear housing. The drain plug was to drain out water condensation that built up there. The fill plug is to add a small amount of engine oil back into that compartment. What extra oil you pour into the first reduction gear housing will end up in the engine crankcase as soon as the gears start turning, Don't believe me??? remove the clutch and pulley assembly of your B and look inside. You will see the drain hole going into the engine crankcase and little dam that diverts any oil splash in the first reduction gear housing toward the drain hole to the crankcase. While you have the pulley off the tractor, start up the engine and watch the oil flow. I've had my B apart and studied it over, this is how it works.

ON the model 50 tractors they added a seal to the clutch end of crankshaft. The 50's use gear oil in the first reduction gear housing.

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gary

08-24-2001 20:22:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to Craig - NO NO NO, late B is oiled different than model 50, 08-23-2001 20:48:01  
Thank you both for responding. I wonder why John Deere made that "improvement" between the models, when a lot of things were left unchanged. I'm not mechanically inclined to figure it out.



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Mikey G

08-22-2001 15:53:13




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 Re: Gear Noise in reply to Buster, 08-22-2001 11:35:03  
I have a 44A also and it makes the same noise . Its not a grind but a whine I am not worried those teeth have 57 years of wear I dont pull or work it real hard . where in Mich are you I am in Howell

Mikey G



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Buster

08-23-2001 04:45:39




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 Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to Mikey G, 08-22-2001 15:53:13  
I'm in Hemlock, west of Saginaw. The noise isn't a grind, but is probablby the same whine that you have. I'm just trying to figure out how to approach the situation as other than that, the transmission is sound.



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Will P

08-23-2001 20:32:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to Buster, 08-23-2001 04:45:39  
Check the bearing under the cap on the reduction gear cover. My 43 B made some bad whinning and I lost all the ball bearings. Race to race. The oil in the reduction is engine oil. Some other posts are talking about transmission (gear) oil being in there. The late styled A and B changed to transmission oil and the reduction gears were open to the trans case. The unstyled and early styled reduction gears are oiled by engine oil and are open to the engine case, Not transmission. Deere had wear problems with the gears being oiled by the engine oil and changed the design to close the engine off from the reduction gears and to lube the gears with trans oil and opened up the trans to the reduction gears. Hope you find out what is going wrong.

Will

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Buster

08-24-2001 04:52:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to Will P, 08-23-2001 20:32:36  
Thanks Will, I'll give that a whirl..... ....



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Chuck

08-22-2001 12:23:19




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 Re: Gear Noise in reply to Buster, 08-22-2001 11:35:03  
that's an interesting viewpoint on the grinding. Most generally grinding gets worst then something more major or catastrophic happens which generaly means more $$$$$$. The tractors that weren't grinding probably had some money spent restoring the transmission.



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Mike Frank

08-23-2001 21:52:29




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 Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to Chuck, 08-22-2001 12:23:19  
I was just about to post a similar thread about my 630. For years it has always had some gear whine from the primary reduction cover, but now it seems to be getting louder. It is most noticeable under load. (even a mild load like climbing a hill) Does anyone know if you have to add oil directly to the reduction on a 630, or is it also lubed through the transmission? Also, what grade oil should I use in the tranny.

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Bryan

08-24-2001 10:20:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Gear Noise in reply to Mike Frank, 08-23-2001 21:52:29  
My '46 A makes a similar whine, especially when it is under a load. I didn't realize that I needed to add oil in the reduction cover. I'll check it out & see how she sounds (if I can get the tires to hold air long enough). Thanks for the wake-up call, guys. -Bryan in KS



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