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320/420

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CPeter

03-03-2001 15:29:36




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I have what I thought is a 420U. There is no serial number tag on it, but it looks alot like a 40 except the motor has a water pump and I am quite sure that the bore is 4 1/4". I had it apart about 10 years ago and I am sure we measured the bore then. It was mentioned that a 320 was mearly a slightly updated 40. What are the differences between a 320 and a 420?

Thanks, CPeter




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Steamer

03-07-2001 14:46:36




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 Re: 320/420 in reply to CPeter, 03-03-2001 15:29:36  
The 320 was the 40 continued on during the '20 series, and kept on as the 330 when that change occured. It was intended as an entry-level small tractor, but I figure it was also a way to unload a lot of older 40 series parts they had laying around as a result of the newer, fancier offerings.

The 40/320/330 engines are easiest to tell apart by the lack of a water pump. The 420 had some minor alterations to the block, most notably to add a water pump needed to remove the greater amount of heat the enlarged engine produced.

The 320/330 was a standard tractor, while the 420/430 utility were low ground clearance tractors. The way this was accomplished was to turn the final drive housings 90 degrees. The center line of the standard tractor rear wheels are in line vertically with the differential output shaft (the final drive housing drops downward). The center line of the utility tractor rear wheels are not in line vertically with the differential output shaft (the final drive housings move the rear wheels forward).

In other words, the rear wheels are mounted further forward, and the tractor is lower, on the utility than on the standard. The other place to look is on the front end. Both are wide front ends made from steel pipe. The standard has a longer upright from the front axle to the wheel than the utility does. This goes along with the ground clearance changes to the rear wheels.

Hopefully, I haven't totally confused you by now. These differences are obvious if you should get a standard and a utility next to each other. It can be hard to see, though, if you've only ever seen one type.

The standard tractor needs more ground clearance for crops, but there is a loss in stability. the utility doesn't need the height, so it gains more stability for use with loaders, mowers and such.

The 320/330 were only available as a standard tractor with only the 4-speed transmission and basic PTO with the single-cylinder lift unit.

The 420/430 was available in several models (standard, tricycle, utility, crawler, row-crop-utility and several 'special' variations). They had a choice of 4-speed or 5-speed transmissions. You could have standard PTO, Live PTO and a direction reverser (shuttle shift) option. The hydraulics could be either single or dual cylinder rockshafts.

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G Taylor utility standard 320/330

03-08-2001 03:10:19




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 Re: Re: 320/420 in reply to Steamer, 03-07-2001 14:46:36  
320 & 330's were avalable in three chassis styles.Utility,standard & the rare "V" factory/dealer conversion.



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mike

03-04-2001 10:35:14




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 Re: 320/420 in reply to CPeter, 03-03-2001 15:29:36  
The engine blocks are different on a 320-420.
The 320 lower water pipe runs from the radiator
back to the center of the engine block on the
left side.The 420 doesn't do this,the side
of the block is smooth with only a drain plug.
Someone posted the mufflers are different,but
this is not the case.Both are the same,with
the slant steers using an extension pipe and
a different muffler,but the 320 and 420 slant
also use the same muffler.

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BMeyer

03-04-2001 11:48:53




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 Re: Re: 320/420 in reply to mike, 03-04-2001 10:35:14  
A muffler from a 40 is the same as a 320 & 420?



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mike

03-04-2001 17:15:43




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 Re: Re: Re: 320/420 in reply to BMeyer, 03-04-2001 11:48:53  
Yep,their the same,takes a different carb,but
the manifold is the same on top.



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BMeyer

03-05-2001 02:41:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 320/420 in reply to mike, 03-04-2001 17:15:43  
It will fit from one to the other, but the 420 muffler is larger in diameter. Check the parts book.



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mike

03-05-2001 05:13:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 320/420 in reply to BMeyer, 03-05-2001 02:41:53  
Parts book doesn't tell diameter.How can it be
bigger when the hole in the hood is the same
size.Original muffler Am-625T fits,M,Mt,MC,40,
320,420.Slant steer or 1958 models take AM3101T.
And pipe AT 10523. A lot of JD part numbers have
been changed or sub to something else.



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Steamer

03-07-2001 14:25:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 320/420 in reply to mike, 03-05-2001 05:13:09  
The M and 40 used a one-piece muffler that was small enough in diameter to fit through the hole in the hood. The 420 and 430 had more power, requiring more muffling. The new design split the manifold pipe off of the muffler, and the new large diameter muffler is clamped to the pipe. This allows the muffler to be removed prior to removing the hood.



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BMeyer

03-05-2001 14:01:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 320/420 in reply to mike, 03-05-2001 05:13:09  
The diameter of the muffler is larger, not the diameter of the pipe. I agree, the part numbers change. If I had your email address I'd take a couple digital pictures and show you the difference.



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JD70Jim

03-04-2001 08:22:25




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 Re: 320/420 in reply to CPeter, 03-03-2001 15:29:36  
CPeter: Does this tractor have a serial number plate?
Serial numbers for 320s are: 1956 320001 1957 321220 1958 325127
Serial numbers for 420s are: 1956 80001 1957 107813 1958 127782
The 40 series tractors had individual serial number ranges, all starting with 60001. That is to say a 40C,40T,40U,40H,40S could all have the same serial number. The range for these was 60001 to 79999. If your tractor has a tag, look and see what number range it falls into. If your tractor does not, your going to need both parts manuals to find out. Good luck. JD70jim

.

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Cpeter

03-04-2001 06:39:56




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 Re: 320/420 in reply to CPeter, 03-03-2001 15:29:36  
Now I am completely confused. What I have looks like a 40 with a 420 motor. It has a 4 speed transmission, straight steering wheel, water pump, and the loader which came off a known 420 that I put on it. Other than the motor and radiator, it looks like a 40. Is it a 40 or 320 with an 420 motor? It doesn't look like it was cobbed together. I will look closer this afternoon to check out if the motor and radiator look like they were changed.

thanks for the replys.

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CPeter

03-05-2001 10:19:47




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 Re: Re: 320/420 in reply to Cpeter, 03-04-2001 06:39:56  
I checked it over yesterday. New clues are: implement mounting bolt on front steering gear column, single bolt for starter mounting, engine and rest of tractor are slightly different colors, so engine maybe a replacement, but radiator and mounts look the same as rest of tractor. Intake manifold and carb are same as '40. Tach mount in dash is tilted at about 30 degre4es (my 40 crawler is flat to dash. Maybe it is a '56 420?

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G Taylor

03-04-2001 11:20:49




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 Re: Re: 320/420 in reply to Cpeter, 03-04-2001 06:39:56  
The 1956 420 was all green, straight steer, 4-1/4" bore,water pump, 40 style starter retainer bolt & had only a transmission driven pto. A set of parts,operators & service manuals will assist is figuring out a mix & match job plus proper service. Green Magazine sells a couple of books written by JR that pretty well explains the who & what of Dubuque tractors.



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BMeyer

03-04-2001 04:44:28




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 Re: 320/420 in reply to CPeter, 03-03-2001 15:29:36  
Your right, the 320 is nothing more than an updated 40, and they are the same as in size, especially the utility's. (Only difference might be the yellow stripe and value.) The 420 is much larger than the 320. A 420 will have 4 1/4" pistons, where the 320 and 40 have 4" pistons. If the muffler is orginal, you can tell the difference this way also, the 420 muffler is larger. If you have a water pump, it's a 420.

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Highgrove

03-03-2001 19:04:08




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 Re: 320/420 in reply to CPeter, 03-03-2001 15:29:36  
Mainly the engine. The 320 was basically the 40



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