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More Power!!!!

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Junkman

01-29-2001 19:53:15




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can anyone tell me how some guys just "turn up the power" on their diesel tractors?




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Poor Farm Jim

02-02-2001 10:18:00




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 Re: More Power!!!! in reply to Junkman, 01-29-2001 19:53:15  
Hey Junkman,

How frustrated are you asking just the simple question of how do you turn up your pump for more power and getting involved in all kinds theory on water injection etc.? Just go to your dealer and ask them how to turn up the pump a little. They can tell you where and how to do it, and approx. how much of a turn for a reasonable horsepower increase. That's all you want to do isn't it?

Jim

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G Taylor read the order of answers

02-02-2001 19:17:12




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 Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to Poor Farm Jim, 02-02-2001 10:18:00  
Re-read it with the dates. We had no idea what he was wanting to overpower, the assumption made was the tractor being a two cylinder.



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Junkman

02-01-2001 19:26:48




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 Re: More Power!!!! in reply to Junkman, 01-29-2001 19:53:15  
Guys, Thanks for all the input. If I had money I might be able to do all that was suggested, but I don't. I was just interested in more power from a JD 3010 cheaply. By the way it is a 4 cylinder diesel.



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G Taylor two stroke it?

02-01-2001 16:49:16




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 Re: More Power!!!! in reply to Junkman, 01-29-2001 19:53:15  
If a positive displacement blower is in the works why not two stroke the diesel? A bit of work on the cam drive & cam grinding.The power output would be smooth every 180 degrees.



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John T

01-30-2001 06:22:43




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 Re: More Power!!!! in reply to Junkman, 01-29-2001 19:53:15  
I agree with Matt there and on some type of injection pumps, its real easy to do, while harder on others. The manufacturers design is conservative enough to allow a bit more fuel yielding more horsepower (which is basically a function of torque X RPM). Next thing is to supply more air to match the extra fuel (turbochargers etc) then to make it (the air) cooler and denser like inner or after coolers do (turbo drawback is that they extract exhaust gas heat warming up the air), then maybe to add a bit of water (water injection) but thats mostly for the high HP pullers. A limiting factor then becomes the extreme temperatures which can play *&^%$ with piston tops etc. Ol John T

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Matt Lemmer

01-30-2001 07:46:08




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 Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to John T, 01-30-2001 06:22:43  
Yep, those exhaust temps must be watched. If the piston is all aluminum, 1075 degrees is the most
you want to see on the pyrometer. On high powered
diesels with steel piston crowns-1200 degrees.



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John T

01-30-2001 08:15:14




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 Re: Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to Matt Lemmer, 01-30-2001 07:46:08  
Hey Matt, is the water injection more for cooling purposes (fluids extract heat more eficiently than just air), or to cool to make the air more dense, or both??? I always figured it helped for both reasons.



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Bill E.

01-30-2001 11:05:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to John T, 01-30-2001 08:15:14  
John T.,

My 2 cents.

The turbo mainly provides heat to the intake air by the compressor. Much like the portable shop compressor ( that copper tube that we weren't supposed to touch as kids!). To heat the air from the exhaust would require conduction throught the body of the turbo. I don't see that as much of contributor.

Physics of water. At 212F or 100c, water absorbs 540 calories of heat for every gram flashing to steam. From a cooling point, that would help the temp in the combustion chamber (piston temp, etc). I've heard about water being used for cooling more from an after firing stand point. Not sure about the compression side. More knowledgeable folks can help there. As a side note, This steam effect was looked at to cool lenses used for high powered lasers. A 99% efficient lense would soak up that 1% and they needed a way to remove this heat. I heard about this in one of my heat transfer classes.
As i said my 2 cents.
Bill

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G Taylor common misconception

01-30-2001 21:17:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to Bill E., 01-30-2001 11:05:44  
Universal Gas Law rules apply here as well. Compressing air & the resulting heat is what ignites diesel engine combustion. An effect of whenever gas is compressed. The pressure from a blower is intended to increase the lbs of air through the engine. Heating the air only would reduce power as it would be less dense & result fewer lbs of air through the engine. Heat is also added to intake air as a turbo centrifical compressor is 75% efficient at best.The other 25% of the energy is heat added to the air as waste. The intercooler adds power by making the air denser into the engine. Also increases power as greater the delta T in combustion chamber the more expansion. Side benfit of engine surviving if lowering the combustion chamber temps if engine had been pushed to the metal heat failure range.

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DPOST

01-30-2001 10:13:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to John T, 01-30-2001 08:15:14  

John

I think water injection is for the two reasons you stated, but I think it is also for additional exapnsion in the combustion chamber as the water changes state form liquid ( fine droplets ) to a gas ( steam ).

What do I know? Hopefully someone that can speak with athority will feel compelled to explain it to us regular followers of rummy's

Take care
D.D.Post



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Junkman

01-30-2001 09:25:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to John T, 01-30-2001 08:15:14  
I am working on a 1961 JD 3010. My understanding is that it has about 60 hp. Is this one that can be changed easily or should it be left alone?



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Matt Lemmer

01-29-2001 22:18:13




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 Re: More Power!!!! in reply to Junkman, 01-29-2001 19:53:15  
Turning up the power on a diesel involves adjusting the injector pump to deliver more fuel,
and usually installing bigger injectors.
To make significantly power with a diesel, you must have a turbocharger. More fuel requires more air. Otherwise, you will make lots of black smoke
instead of power.



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George

01-31-2001 11:35:52




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 Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to Matt Lemmer, 01-29-2001 22:18:13  
Speaking of power, why wasn't it feasable to turbocharge two cyl's like the 70's 720- 730's heard of propane injection but not on 2 cyl's just a thought.Always wondered?



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John T

02-01-2001 05:27:48




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 Re: Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to George, 01-31-2001 11:35:52  
They (turbochargers) werent very well adapted to two cylinder use due to the infrequent and irregular exhaust gas pressure pulses and pressure cycle produced by only two cylinders at that 0, 180, then 540 coast cycle. The turbo likes a steady non pulsing good constant pressure flow (like more cylinders produces) to spin the turbine blades. Ol John T



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George

02-01-2001 06:16:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to John T, 02-01-2001 05:27:48  
John: Thats what I kinda thought,very uneven pressure hard to keep the spool rpm's up.I thought about a crank driven roots type blower ie. 6-71GMC. but think with 2 pistons would be hard to keep boost even, would have to maybe have an accumulator and large runners to feed it.She gulps a lot of air on intake stroke with nearly 200 cu. in. per cyl. not very fast just lots of volume. like they say an very old design, not easily adapted to modern tecknowlogy. Just my thoughts Thanks for the reply

she swallows a lot of air

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John T

02-01-2001 09:07:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Power!!!! in reply to George, 02-01-2001 06:16:35  
George, Im no supercharger expert in any way, but a belt driven charger is not susceptible to the sudden irregular pulses of the exhaust driven turbo, therefore, I think if it was belt or gear driven at the right ratio to deliver sufficient CFM at the necessary RPM, it would work just fine. Those 671 blowers were sufficient CFM to suppy air to 6 of those 71 cubic inch each cylinders in the 6-71 two cycle diesels, so surely they (at right RPM) can supply two cylinders at a low rpm ??? Let me know if u do any design??? Ol John T Electrical NOT Mechanical Engineer

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