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JD G carb on JD B

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Mike Quale

12-19-2000 16:20:47




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I have a spare carb off of a John Deere G and I was wandering if it would give my '51 John Deere B more power or what?....I have heard that a JD A carb have been known to go on B's good....but I am not sure? I plan to tractor pull the B and I could use the extra power if that would give it more?




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Bill READ THIS

12-23-2000 08:59:42




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 Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Mike Quale, 12-19-2000 16:20:47  
Fellows my name that I've been useing is Bill,But I'm not the one that's in this pissing contest. From now on I'm luckydog, that's been my password for years so that what i'm going to use since there to many Bill's. I respect this right to use this service to much to make nasty comments. You all have a Merry Christmas!! luckydog



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Bill

12-21-2000 05:55:43




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 Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Mike Quale, 12-19-2000 16:20:47  
Don't listen to G Tayor on this one. He is a smart guy but missed the boat here. Yes it will work and it will run just fine. It will give you about 2 HP over the stock carb.



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Cam

12-21-2000 15:08:21




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 Re: Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Bill, 12-21-2000 05:55:43  
Hi Bill,

G T sounds like an engineer. He didn't say it wouldn't work. What he said is it wouldn't be as efficient as if it were sized properly. What he gave were facts. I agree that Mike might as well give it a swing since he already has it. Could be a lot of fun. (Hey, discovery is fun!) This is like putting a 850 Holley double pumper on a 3.8L Buick. It may work, but how well? Or like puting a blower on a big v-8. It will make a ton of power, but the blower will suck up a lot just to run. Efficiency. Drive on!

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Bill

12-21-2000 19:17:48




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 Re: Re: Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Cam, 12-21-2000 15:08:21  
I don't care what GT sounds like. He doesn't know what he is talking about on this one. A G carb will work on a B and if the carb is good, you can't tell the differents. All that talk about the CID is just a bunch BS. If he had put a G carb on a B, he would know it works.



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G Taylor

12-21-2000 21:28:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Bill, 12-21-2000 19:17:48  
Wm it depends if you are interested in facts or your feelings.

A particular sized carburator has an optimum cfm rating range where air velocity causes the ideal delta P across the venturi (s) to pick up fuel and carry the fuel mist suspended in the airflow. Too little velocity & mixture metering becomes erratic with fuel droplets falling out of suspension causing puddling on the port floors. This is a commom cause of intermitent bogging or missing when the engine is lugged down. A smaller carb would have made more torque/power. Of course a too small carb will restrict flow & reduce volumetric efficiency particualy at high RPM. The B or any other engine depending on it's configuration will have three ideal carb sizes. One each for peak torque, peak HP & best compromise. The G carb family is a stretch on a stock B, better one of the A carbs.

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Bill

12-22-2000 04:35:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to G Taylor , 12-21-2000 21:28:40  
That is an easy answer for someone that has never put a G carb on a B. If a G carb has a max flows of 100 CFM. It will have the right fuel to air ratio from 0 to 100 CFM. If you put that carb on a B and it only needs 50 CFM max, it will still have the right fuel to air ratio. If you are saying that the carb won't work with the lower CFM flow, then why does it work at half throttle? The throttle plate is AFTER the venturi and fuel pick up.

This is why you can not trust what you read on this forum. Too many people that think they know everything trying to make themself look smart.

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Herb form Main

12-22-2000 06:35:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Bill, 12-22-2000 04:35:08  
Bill give the man a break. He read it in a book that big carbs won't work on small engines even though he has never tried it himself. He even knows that an A carb will work better because the lettr A is closer to B than G. I have had a dltx 24 on my 51 B for about 2 years and it starts and pulls good. I ground the intake manifold to match the carb and removed the restrictive intake elbow put on a k&n filter. It runs real good usually wins its class just doesnt idle real low.

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G Taylor for Wm Herb

12-22-2000 14:09:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Herb form Main, 12-22-2000 06:35:04  
I don't know how you can't understand, maybe you don't want to? If you won't then ask one of the other fellows such as Clooney, Albert,Old John T to name a few. A grossly oversized carb cannot accurately meter fuel at wide open with a small percentage of it's rated volume flowing through it. Perhapes you are not interested in "education", lab experience, the laws of physics,logic etc. You may not believe the laws of physics but gravity etc works whether you believe in it or not. It seems to threaten your fragile ego. Must be pretty frail if a posting from a stranger far away can upset you enough to become nasty. The A,B,G carb was sized to provide optimum metering at rated RPM & at 80% load. An undersized carb will give an appearance of increased power when lugged down. It had the engine's top end peak power choked off slightly but allowed a high volumetric efficiency at wide open turning at 2/3 of rated RPM. The way Deere built them. A modestly oversize carb ( one the makes peak HP at max RPM) will work great at max & mid RPM but way oversize carbs will puddle fuel when lugged down. Rather than by guess & by golley put the B on a dyno & test all three carbs at wide open from max rated to lugging to the last gasp. A "stock" B with a dry filter aircleaner & a straight exhaust pipe will overall run best for pulling with an A carb.

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Bill

12-22-2000 15:46:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to G Taylor for Wm Herb, 12-22-2000 14:09:26  
Boy G Taylor, you are sure working hard to suck up to Herb. Is it your ego that is fragile?

I have tested a B John Deere with the stock carb and then a G carb. I hate to make you sad, but the G carb had more power than the B carb from Max RPM to as slow as it would go. What is so hard to belive about that? If fact I have put G carbs on four Bs. I have also put A carbs on B. The A carb and the G work about the same. I'm just confussed why this upsets you so much? It is possible that someone might know a little more about this subject than you. Is that all that bad?

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G Taylor as per Cam Mike

12-23-2000 07:40:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Bill, 12-22-2000 15:46:51  
What are you talking about sucking up to Herb? I prefer hard facts from someone with technical experience in the labratory? I've disagreed or needed updating on info from the big names on this site and they were never nasty. As per Cam & Mike's experience. A STOCK big nut G carb is not going to be optimum on a STOCK B. If the B engine/manifold has been airflow upgraded & the carb metering compensated then the combo could be made to work. What were the dyno results but I suspect you only used the seat of pants dyno. What were the numbers? As per per the post saying the carb is rated equally 0 to 100 cfm there is no way to make a carb perform that way. There is an ideal idle range when all the fuel is being metered through the idle circuit with the throttle blades in the near closed position. Then there is an ideal metering/mixing airflow from midrange & up to rated flow. With a undersized carb flow over rated will tend to lean out the mixture & flow rates will centrifuge/stratify the fuel in the airstream. The trouble spot with every carb is transition from idle cicuit until the mains are solidly established. A grossly oversize carb at wide open & flowing in the low end will have such a problem. The trouble at transition is making enough delta P across the venturi to lift the fuel. The velocity will also be too low to adequately mix the fuel mist with the air & maintain fuel in suspension all the way to the cylinders. A single intake port engine such as the letter series will be much more suspeptable to this problem than the numbered duplex setup. The right/left cylinder air/fuel ratio will not be optimum for power. The imbalance will be exagerated with a grossly oversized carb. These are reasons also why auto makers went to complex port fuel injection over carbs to accurately meter fuel even on Aunt Martha's new bingo buggy.

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Mike Aylward

12-22-2000 05:58:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Bill, 12-22-2000 04:35:08  
Bill, I'm not going to tell you a G carburetor won't work on your B, but you would probably like the results of an A carburetor better. If you do go with the G carb, I would put the B power nozzle in it so as not to overload the thing with fuel. A G carb on an A can tend to load up at anything but full power (with the standard G nozzle). A 71 carb with a B power nozzle would probably yield better results. But good luck with what you're doing. Hope this helps. Mike

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Todd

12-20-2000 11:55:30




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 Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Mike Quale, 12-19-2000 16:20:47  
I agree with the other gentleman, but if you have the carb, you might as well try it. Funnier things have somehow worked.



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G Taylor

12-19-2000 22:13:30




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 Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Mike Quale, 12-19-2000 16:20:47  
The G carb was intended for a 413 cubic inch engine at 975 RPM or so. The B has 190 cu" & runs at about 1250 RPM. The engine could not pull enough air through the larger carb to effiently mix the air/fuel.Unless bored, stroked & RPM's wound way out.



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G Taylor

12-19-2000 22:13:08




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 Re: JD G carb on JD B in reply to Mike Quale, 12-19-2000 16:20:47  
The G carb was intended for a 413 cubic inch engine at 975 RPM or so. The B has 190 cu" & runs at about 1250 RPM. The engine could not pull enough air through the larger carb to effiently mix the air/fuel.Unless bored, stroked & RPM's wound way out.



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