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3020 24V alt change

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j wright

11-27-2000 14:47:08




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I'm changing the old generator out and replacing with a 24V alt. Anyone have a wiring diagram or a link to information?




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WTW

11-28-2000 07:50:00




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 Re: 3020 24V alt change in reply to j wright, 11-27-2000 14:47:08  
The best reference to use to tell you what you want to know is an early 4020 service manual. It will have the wiring schematic that you will want to refer to. The early 4020 was available in 1967 and 1968 with a factory cab and air conditioning these tractors came from the factory with a 24 volt alternator instead of the standard 24 volt generator. The alternator was a Motorola brand and was not case grounded. These tractors used the same basic wiring as what you are working with (3020). Another brand of alternator can be used as long as it is not case grounded. These alternators will have two lines to them just like the original 24 volt generator did. A alternator is a good asset if you need additional 24 volt power/ amperage. But if your problem is that one of your two batteries is not staying charged or one is always low the alternator will not fix your problem (98% sure of it). The system cannot have any leaks and 12 volt loads MUST be balanced on both batteries like the system was designed to work or it will not work, alternator or not. If this is your problem let us know or email me and I know we can help solve your problem. There is nothing that can't be fixed on a 24 volt system but there is some things that must be maintained to keep them working right. Nothing cranks over and starts better than a proper working 24 volt system! Good Luck!! Dave Wickman

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j wright

11-28-2000 19:21:36




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 Re: Re: 3020 24V alt change in reply to WTW, 11-28-2000 07:50:00  
Well it's like the short trips just to put out hay. The generator won't keep the batteries hot. The alt should give the juice needed to keep the batteries from draining on the short runs. you think?



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WTW

11-29-2000 07:53:02




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 Re: Re: Re: 3020 24V alt change in reply to j wright, 11-28-2000 19:21:36  
If I am understanding you correctly your tractor will start without any assistance and you hay your cows and after shutting it off you find that the batteries have deteriorated to the point it will not start? This scenario is one kind of a problem, but if you have to jump the tractor every time to hay the cows and expect the charging system to bring the batteries back up to a full charge to start the tractor, we are talking about another kind of problem and possibly two problems. Either way if your tractor does not have any add on accessories like radios, cab, monitors, extra lighting, etc. your alternator is not needed. What you need is get to the root of your problem and the question I need an answer for is: Will the tractor start on its own without assistance (jumping it) before you ever feed the cows? Or will the tractor start after you charge both batteries up and leave the tractor set for a few days without jumping it? What I think we will find here is that the batteries or one battery is being drained down while the tractor is setting and you are expecting the charging system to recover them when haying the cows (will never happen). If the drain was a perfect balanced drain on both batteries (NOT Likely) the charging system would recover your batteries if you ran your tractor long enough to charge them back up. Problem is: the drain that I would be willing to bet that you have is on one battery (not a balanced drain) and the way the system works the tractor will not charge one low battery, 24 volt generator or alternator. Please confirm my question some more and I will continue to help . Thanks Dave W.

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j wright

11-30-2000 08:10:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 24V alt change in reply to WTW, 11-29-2000 07:53:02  
o.k. my problem is I have changed from gen to alt. (24v) The alt has one wire, thus has an internal exciter and regulator, I would think it is also grounded internally thus causing a ground to the tractor frame when bolted on. My problem is the one wire....where does it need to be hooked up to, the man at my tractor parts place said to the positive post of the starter solenoid but major arcing occurs. The system is positive ground. I have no accessories (cab,radio, etc.) As far as I know it is a balanced drain of the batteries on the short trips. Most of the time several turnovers and starting fluid sprayed at the breather will start it. Does the old regulator need to be removed? And where would the alt wire hook up in the system?

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G Taylor

11-30-2000 15:28:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 24V alt change in reply to j wright, 11-30-2000 08:10:40  
Avalable cheap from this site or direct from Deere(1-800-522-7448) are parts,service & electrical manuals. A manual is economical compaired to burning out components,lost production and general frustration. Couldn't have explained the current wiring situation better than WTW already has.



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WTW

11-30-2000 13:43:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 24V alt change in reply to j wright, 11-30-2000 08:10:40  
j wright, Now that I Know what you are trying to make work and what you are working with I will try and help you. Your tractor is 12 volt positive and 12 volt negative ground system with an isolated 24 volt starting and charging system. When hooking to either of the two battery connections on the starter you will be getting one of the two 12 volt options, NOT 24 volt. The frame grounded 24 volt alternator that you are trying to install is not compatible with this system. This alternator when hooked to either battery will dead short the other battery. The key to your problem is you need a 24 volt two wire or isolated ground alternator. The one wire 24 volt alternator that you are trying to use can be made work, BUT the tractor wiring will have to be altered and the tractor will become a complete 24 volt system verses the original split 12 pos., 12 neg. and 24 volt starting/ charging system like it was designed. Before you go to the work of doing this conversion there is some things that you must know before I have you do this because if you do not you will burn out every 12 volt function on the tractor, including: all lights, fuel sender, fuel gauge, lighter and indicator lights in the dash. To make the one wire alternator that you chose to use work, all 12 volt functions that I mentioned above must be converted to 24 volt. I do not know where you will ever find a 24 volt fuel gauge and sender to fit this application? The problem with the alternator you have is that it is not isolated from ground and it will not allow the 12 volt function I previously mentioned to work. Really it is not what you should be using with the split 12 volt/ 24 volt systems like you have here. If you chose to use this one wire alternator verses the correct two wire, first get everything/ function I previously mentioned switched to 24 volt. (OR YOU WILL BURN IT OUT) Second the batteries have to be hooked to the tractor so they are providing 24 volt negative ground. I will give you step by step instruction on how to make the wiring changes but first I must know if your tractor wiring has ever been replaced. If it has it will have the new type circuit breakers mounted on the side of the starter solenoid and I need to know this before I can tell you how to alter the wiring connections. There would be no alteration needed if you went with a two wire alternator like used on the early 4020 factory A/C system tractors or a 5010/ 5020 tractor. Another option is convert it to 12 volt system. What was wrong with your original 24 volt generator? Let me know what you have and want to do and I can tell you what to do from there. See Ya! Dave Wickman

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G Taylor

11-30-2000 15:32:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 24V alt change in reply to WTW, 11-30-2000 13:43:09  
Avalable cheap from this site or direct from Deere(1-800-522-7448) are parts,service & electrical manuals. A manual is economical compaired to burning out components,lost production and general frustration.
Couldn't have explained the current wiring situation better than WTW already has.



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G Taylor

11-28-2000 20:26:55




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 Re: Re: Re: 3020 24V alt change in reply to j wright, 11-28-2000 19:21:36  
Cured that problem on my 620. Tossed the tinkered alternator conversion in the corner.

Purchased a new origional & good looking generator/regulator from Kenneth at Classic Generator. Instead of the common 4 inch pulley we ordered the 2-1/2 inch. Set charge voltage at 13.8 volts measured at battery. Charges right down to 600rpm idle.Lights are bright & it always starts.



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G Taylor ignor me , was thinking of something else

11-28-2000 20:55:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 24V alt change in reply to G Taylor, 11-28-2000 20:26:55  
Oops was thinking of another post, too tired. The swap to a 4020 24V cab alternator is a great idea. As mentioned the ballancing of origional & added electrical loads must be done .Otherwise just park the tractor and use it as a flower pot.



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ROBERT

11-27-2000 18:10:32




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 Re: 3020 24V alt change in reply to j wright, 11-27-2000 14:47:08  
on the last one i did i used a 24v delco (not the one for road trucks)and it had been made to be isolated just for 24v gen tractors. on the old gen are 2 big wires and one small wire.one big one is + and the other one is - ,i dont have my book here so i dont know whitch one is +or-.a
molty meter will tell. remove the wires off the old reg and with a test light find the one that comes on and off with the key switch and use it to turn on the alt.
ROBERT

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