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3020 Diesel

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Gary

04-01-2000 17:40:12




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My 3020 Diesel will start Ok, but will only run a couple minutes and won't rev up above 1000 rpm and then only for a short time. Then slows down to about 500 rpm, then dies. I have never worked on a diesel. What is likely to be the problem?




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buckeye al

04-03-2000 16:12:59




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 Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Gary, 04-01-2000 17:40:12  
Almost hat to mention it 'cause I think we're all assuming the filters are OK but just in case, when was the last time all stages of the fuel filters were replaced?



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david val

04-01-2000 20:35:31




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 Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Gary, 04-01-2000 17:40:12  
check out
the return line from the inj. pump. (that's the line that comes out of the pump cover and also drains the injectors bleed). it might be clogged.



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twopop

04-01-2000 20:35:21




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 Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Gary, 04-01-2000 17:40:12  
AT the rear of the injection pump,close to the blow by tube there is a fuel line that goes straight up then bends to the # 4 injector.take this line loose at the pump and then start the engine,fuel will come out of the pump. run the engine and see if it runs correctly,if it does the fuel line is plugged and must be cleaned out or replaced.if it is plugged,get ready to have the pump rebuilt.



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Gary

04-02-2000 07:30:12




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 Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to twopop, 04-01-2000 20:35:21  

What would be the source of the pluggage? Dirty fuel or can carbon get in this line. All I was able to determine yesterday was that clean fuel was reaching the pump. I will disconnect this bleed line and see what happens. How much fuel is normally returned through this line? This old tractor has over 10,000 hours on it. It probably could use a complete engine overhaul but I use it for light jobs and only very little. Are the Roosa pumps normally rebuilt as an exchange like a starter or can you buy a kit? Thanks for the help.

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twopop

04-02-2000 09:38:34




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 Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Gary, 04-02-2000 07:30:12  
the source of the plug is that there is a neoprene gasket,or washer that is part of the governor assy.and if it starts to break up,little pieces of it try to get to the fuel tank.this might be ok except that they cant make it past the bends in the return line,so they plug.you can get a repair kit from john deere but i dont know what it includes.you can also get a pump on exchange basis for about 700 dollars.when you disconnect the return line and start the engine,fuel will be pumped out this is in excess of what the pump needs to supply the injectors.while you are testing to see if the engine runs properly,about a quart of fuel will be pumped out.

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Garry L. Jones

04-02-2000 10:36:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to twopop, 04-02-2000 09:38:34  
Sounds like the pump may be doomed. No knowing anything about diesels I was looking for the governor linkage and finally discovered in my I&T manual that the governor is a flyweight in the pump. This tractor has always started, run, and idled well, even though it is virtually worn out. About 2 weeks ago the engine would speed up and slow down by itself but would run normally at full rpm. Then this cleared up and it started running and idling ok again. I thought there was some trash that had been pumped through. It probably was the governor seal that failed. It is odd that these little bits of rubber can make it thru the small hole in the injector line at the pump and then get stuck in the return line. I hope these injection pumps are not not like the ones on GM trucks. Once one goes bad they follow each other going bad. How difficult a job is it to rebuild a pump yourself? Thanks again.

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203040series

04-02-2000 10:29:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to twopop, 04-02-2000 09:38:34  
On some inj pumps (depending on the model) the return fitting had a glass or plastic ball held in place by a spring.Unscrew the fitting from the top of the inj pump and break the glass ball with a suitable punch. Then remove the spring and clean-out the broken particals.



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Gary

04-02-2000 10:44:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to 203040series, 04-02-2000 10:29:41  
Assuming I get the return line unplugged one way or another and the engine runs. The pump will eventually fail anyway. Is there a leak path for diesel to get in the crankcase oil? How risky is it to put off getting a new pump?



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203040series

04-02-2000 10:57:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Gary, 04-02-2000 10:44:07  
The only way diesel can get in the oil is through the pump driveshaft seals.Usually you will notice a severe "hunting" condition at idle (engine speeds up and down on it's on)when the pump is about to fail.It's ok to use just keep your hand close to the throttle in case of runaway!!!



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Gary

04-02-2000 11:17:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to 203040series, 04-02-2000 10:57:27  
I tend to run something until it completely breaks. I don't usually leave the tractor idling unattended. Thanks for the tip about rpm runaway. I would not have expected that. I was wondering about the material that plugs the line. It had to have a function. I guess irregular operation of the governor is what happens when the seal goes. I appreciate the opportunity to learn a little about diesels. They are great when they work right but not as easy to fix as gasoline.

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twopop

04-02-2000 11:37:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Gary, 04-02-2000 11:17:36  
even tho im not that up to date on these pumps.as best as i understand the neoprene washer is not a seal and i dont know its function.however i believe you can continue to use the pump.the little pieces of rubber cant make it up the injector lines.they are washed from the bottom section of the pump,out thru the return fitting,up thru the return line and possibly to the tank. I had one line on a tractor i had to replace because it was plugged so bad i couldnt clean it.if you can get a new governor plate from deere and are a fair and careful mechanic you can repair the pump yourself

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Gary

04-02-2000 13:23:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to twopop, 04-02-2000 11:37:15  
You are certainly more familiar with the pumps than I am. Yesterday was the first time I had ever removed the 3020 side panel on that side of the tractor to see the pump. I am a fair mechanic but not always careful. When taking one of the injector lines loose yesterday I discovered there is a small washer that goes between the pump and the injector line. Fortunately it had fallen down in to a tool box on the ground when I remvoed it. I had one of the other 4 injector lines to look at and figure out where the washer was supposed to go. Thanks for the help.

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twopop

04-02-2000 13:34:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Gary, 04-02-2000 13:23:50  
you have already found one of deeres little antagonists.your lucky your not working on a 4020 some of those little washers are a real pain on a 6 cylinder.



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Gary

04-02-2000 13:56:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to twopop, 04-02-2000 13:34:08  
And not a word about the little washer in any of the manuals. All they say is "disconnect injector line". The drawings and pictures in the manual of the Roosa pumps are very poor. Do you know a source for an assembly drawing of the pumps? Mine is a JDB as best I can figure out.



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twopop

04-02-2000 15:39:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Gary, 04-02-2000 13:56:14  
sorry dont know where to locate assembly drawing.I just know how it goes together by experience.your pump is a JDB431AL2401.as far as an overhaul,if its not using oil then i wouldnt worry about it except to maybe take the pan off and take a look at the rod and main bearings.



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Art Crawford

04-02-2000 15:16:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Gary, 04-02-2000 13:56:14  
It's very critical which direction the washer is placed. 1 side is flat and the other rounded - the round side goes toward the fuel line. There are two washers on each end of the line (4 washers per line - 16 total for 3020). JD and every JD diesel expert I know recommends replacing the washer each time the line is undone - they like to leak - keep every thing very clean. To the original problem - sounds like injectors need cleaned at the very least and maybe the pump overhauled. With 10K hours on the tractor things get tired and warn out - maybe a complete rebuild is in order. Get the JD manuals and have a go at it - it can be done no previous experience needed just guts!!!

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John

04-02-2000 18:17:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Art Crawford, 04-02-2000 15:16:54  
The gov. weight retainer ring is going bad. You can run with out it until six pins in there shear off, then you are done. New weight retainers have a different type of retainer and will last longer. A new retainer will be under $50.00. A new ring can be purchased for about $5.00. You may be able to install one yourself depending on the pump setup. If you can not get a manual for roosa Master fuel pumps I may be able to copy part of a manual for you. A Oldsmobile diesel pump is about the same and manuals are easy to come by. Don't break that glass ball as that will effect your timing advance. That fitting with the glass ball can be cleaned out.

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Gary

04-02-2000 18:45:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to John, 04-02-2000 18:17:29  
I will make every effort to clean the return lines before breaking anything. The drawings of the Roosa Master pumps are supposed to be supplied with the rebuild kits I am told. I will see what I can find. The pump type I have is a JDB.



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Gary

04-02-2000 18:07:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3020 Diesel in reply to Art Crawford, 04-02-2000 15:16:54  
I will check John Deere and see if they will sell me some of the washers without selling me a new tractor with it. If I have to I can reuse the old ones. Thanks for the tip about the washers. I will be careful and try to install them right.

As to the complete overhaul I will put that off as long as possible, assuming I get the pump working again. I may attempt to pull the injectors and clean them. I am sure they need it.

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