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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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John Deere B Carb/Governor

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Andy Kavanaugh

03-19-2008 18:40:10




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I have a 51 B that I am completing restoration on and I have a problem that, I hope, someone can address. I recently got my carb. back from Burrey Carb and put it on the tractor this morning and the tractor would not start and not start. I could only get it going by pull starting it and I finally tinkered with the carb enough to where I could get the tractor started but it would only stay running if I manually held the piece that the throttle rod goes into, the governor was pulsing very badly and if I let go of the throttle rod the tractor would shut off. The tractor ran pretty good before I had the carb worked on. Any suggestions??? Please Help!!!

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Andy Kavanaugh

03-21-2008 15:25:30




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-19-2008 18:40:10  
I just got back from the farm and I ran the IDLE/LOAD tests and I believe that is the problem. Sorry Pat, I was sort of in denial about the "overhauled" carb. When I did the test I believe it is the idle needle, as many of you said. I got it running fine and then shut the load needle and the tractor died right away. When I left the load needle out and put the idle needle all the way in the tractor revved up and then about died until it got more fuel, and I believe this is what is supposed to happen. Can anyone tell me how to fix this, hopefully without having to re-drill the passages, which burrey was supposed to do?? Thanks again, you have all been great in diagnosing this problem.

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PBrowning

03-21-2008 16:41:28




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-21-2008 15:25:30  
Andy -- I think I speak for the community in that after a person pays good money to have a carburetor overhauled, the last thing he wants to even consider is that IT is the culprit. So all is square with me and the rest I am sure -- but now where to??

You may have a fair chance of recovery without pulling the carb. From the URL below, you have what Robert Beaver once stated was 90% of all carb IDLE problems -- three segments of the IDLE passageway, and at the very bottom is segment # 3, also known widely as the SECRET PASSAGE. Robert shows use of a No. 53 Drill bit (0.0595-inch diameter) to clear the way. Getting the drill plug out stands in front of trying to see to it that the way is open. Now, if Burrey was indeed in there and opened it up, getting the drill plug out shouldn't be hard. And as pointed out within this thread, dirt particles have been known to become lodged -- closing the hole back up again!

And if this don't get you home, then yes -- the carb needs to come off and at minimum, these three segments must be cleared. I wish you well -- (PatB)

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Andy Kavanaugh

03-21-2008 16:54:35




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor in reply to PBrowning, 03-21-2008 16:41:28  
Pat, thanks for all your help, you have been very insightful in my quest to finish the "B." If I have any other questions, I will address you, you seem very knowledgeable.



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DanL-B36320

03-21-2008 11:57:34




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor **UPDATE** in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-19-2008 18:40:10  
My late father used to preach to me, "90% of your fuel problems are ignition-related".



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DanL-B36320

03-21-2008 11:56:09




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor **UPDATE** in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-19-2008 18:40:10  
Weak sparks can act like that because a rich mixture is much easier to light than a normal or lean mix.



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THE SMOOTHED DEERES

03-21-2008 06:28:17




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-19-2008 18:40:10  
Try a shot of compressed air down thru the carb sometimes there is alittle dirt in there blocking a passage in the carb . Worked for me once already .



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Andy Kavanaugh

03-20-2008 18:16:44




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor **UPDATE** in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-19-2008 18:40:10  
I got the tractor started today and I found that it will run by itself but it will only run with the carb. choked about halfway. The linkage was good. It runs pretty good, but when I turn the choke off the tractor dies. What gives?? If I were to check the compression on the 1951 B what P.S.I. should I look for?? Thanks to anyone who responds...It means a lot!!



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Mike M

03-21-2008 04:52:31




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor **UPDATE** in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-20-2008 18:16:44  
Well having to have the choke half closed to run used to be a classic sign of a carb. problem. I say USED to be as I had a JD 60 prove that theroy wrong with a bad condenser ? go figure it acted just like the carb. I still can't believe it but a new cond. cured it !



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Duane Larson

03-20-2008 20:06:55




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor **UPDATE** in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-20-2008 18:16:44  
Andy,
Oops - I missed the first part of your question. You might check back with Burrey, as your symptoms are usually associated with a plugged idle circuit. If it is plugged, it can't provide fuel, and the fuel must come from the load circuit - from which it "gulps" fuel - the engine speeds up, only to slow down again until it gulps another load of fuel. As the engine slows down, the throttle plate opens wide and the venturi action at the nozzle (air pressure on the fuel in the bowl is greater than the air pressure at the nozzle) causes fuel to discharge from the nozzle, and the governor causes the throttle plate to close again.

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PBrowning

03-20-2008 20:17:48




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor **UPDATE** in reply to Duane Larson, 03-20-2008 20:06:55  
Duane -- I already pointed this out to Andy -- but it seems folks getting a carb back from "overhaul" think the carb just can't be the problem, and go into denial. Hopefully, he will go back and run the IDLE & LOAD channel tests and see. At least then he will know. (PatB)



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Duane Larson

03-20-2008 19:54:26




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor **UPDATE** in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-20-2008 18:16:44  
Andy,
Deere Field Service Bulletin 212 (2/54) gives 70/110 for All-Fuel/Gasoline engines. That is at the "rated rpm", which is 1250 for the B, and is obtained by belting the tractor up and spinning the crankshaft. The I&T manual JD-4 took that number and listed it as the compression at "motoring rpm", which is the rpm of the starter with no plugs in and the throttle wide open. Deere does not give a "motoring rpm" number for the B, but for the 50 they do, and the 70/110 would be reduced by about 0.8 on the average, so would be ~56/88. Probably more than you wanted to know....

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PBrowning

03-20-2008 07:07:07




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-19-2008 18:40:10  
Andy -- The two issues mentioned -- governor linkage adjustment and carburetion are easy to test for, and written instructions readily available here on the web. Go to the "H" restoration site (below) and once there, scan across to ARTICLES 2. From the drop-downs, select GOVERNOR. At the very end of that piece is the linkage adjustment procedure.

Also � It wouldn�t hurt to run a quick test on that carburetor. Again, scan across to ARTICLES 1, and from the drop-downs, select CARBURETORS. And, also � at the very end � is a no-wrench test of the two pathways of your carburetor, IDLE and LOAD.

Now � hard to start normally but will start by pulling points directly at the ignition system � do you have magneto or a coil-based ignition system? If magneto, is the impulse clicking nice and crisp or sort of a dull thud � or no click at all! I hate to go on & on here � not knowing your ignition system, but if your tractor has magneto, go back to the �H� site, scan across to ARTICLES 1, and from the drop-downs, select ELECT SYSTEMS for a good read on magnetos and troubleshooting them.

You indicated plenty of fuel seemed available and so I won�t go there for now. But one last read over at the �H� site you may find helpful is under ARTICLES 2, called LOSS OF POWER. This short piece kind of sorts things out � in detail for the �H� tractor, and much of it will apply to your �B� also. (PatB)

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Mike M

03-20-2008 05:20:04




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-19-2008 18:40:10  
You say the mag. was just reworked ? was this at the same time as the carb.,before, or after ? New parts have been known to go bad. Do you have another tractor you can swap a mag. or carb. from to isolate this problem ?

I have also had some issues with carbs. from that place in the past. The tiny brass plugs were not sealed and sucked in air makeing it impossible to get adjusted right.



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johns48jdb

03-20-2008 04:39:23




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-19-2008 18:40:10  
he miss lead you just a bit. he said half the width of the hole, but should have said half the width of the rod that goes in the hole. he"s right about the rest. i think there is a way to pull on the rod just enough to take the slack out. i wouldn"t think that it has anything to do with the timing, since it will run. sounds like to you may need a stronger battery or check all you connections, if you"ve painted under the connection where the ground goes you may need to wire brush that area clean and hook up the cable and then touch up around the area with paint. never ever paint any wiring on your tractor. on my 48b i was told to set the fly wheel where the holes were parallel with the ground and then loosen the mag and turn it to the left as far as it will go. then turn it back to the right and when it trips fasten it down right there and it should be good to go. are you sure you don"t have any air restrictions. remove the pipe going to the carb from the air cleaner and try to crank it then. sounds more like a weak battery. it might get better if you run it a while and get the engine broken in if you"ve overhauled it.

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georgiahayfarmer

03-19-2008 19:17:33




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor in reply to Andy Kavanaugh, 03-19-2008 18:40:10  
Andy,

Check your throttle linkage and make sure it is the correct length. Set your throttle to full, then set your governor throttle plate to full open, set your linkage to be 1/2 the width of the hole just short of making it to the hole. Once the length is set then you should have to pull against the governor spring to get the linkage in the hole. Do a search and you will find many posts on this topic. Have you checked all of the other obvious and not so obvious items?

Scott

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Andy Kavanaugh

03-19-2008 19:31:55




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 Re: John Deere B Carb/Governor in reply to georgiahayfarmer, 03-19-2008 19:17:33  
Thanks for the info. Scott. I think I've checked all of the obvious and not so obvious. The engine is getting fuel. The spark shouldn't be a problem because the mag just got reworked, I will check the timing but I already did that, but will check again. I may need to get some new spark plugs and new wires also. I will check the linkage. I just hope I can understand what you are telling me to do. Thanks a mil. Andy

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