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update on rear axle removal on 48 b

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johns48jdb

03-01-2008 15:22:45




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wow. we got it apart and didn't break a thing. good for us. i have hydraulic oil leaking into my trany, so heres where i am today. took 5 hours to get it apart (tractor has cultivators on it) and clean parts and shop. not know where near as bad as i expected it to be. one side of the felt retainers on the outer end of the housing came out with the axle. the other we drove out real ease with a long piece of rebar ran all the way through from the other side. work good. ok, gears out and a little tapping on the inside seals with a long rod got them out ease. there was 3 pieces on one side and only two on the ohter. both side had a seal, a sheet metal thin washer that was beat up real bad and both were worn half way through on one side, the third part was a large washer that was between the sheet meatl washer and the seal. what are either of these parts for. i intend to leave the thin sheet metal washer out. the just wobble around on the axle any way. next thing was i was told to put two seals back in in place of just the one. there isn't enough of depth to do that, however i have my car parts man looking to see if he can find me another seal thats half the width of the orginal seals. we marked everything as to which side it went on as we removed it. now the gasket between the power trol and the rear housing wasn't torn or busted through. i was told this is where the two oil were getting mixed. looking at the inside end of the pto shaft there is no sign of a seal there, maybe a bushing. the shaft does have a slit in it that runs at an angle around the shaft, machined in. whats that for. the seal that i think is leaking is inside the pro pump its self. pc-330 page 78 items 29 through 32. i haven't torn into that yet. is this the only two places that could allow the two oils to mix? sorry for long post, but will up date you as it goes back togeher. if your going to do this go for it. its not near as bad as i thought it would be. thanks for any inputs.

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johns48jdb

03-02-2008 15:25:18




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 Re: update on rear axle removal on 48 b in reply to johns48jdb, 03-01-2008 15:22:45  
i did find out what the grove in the pto shaft is for. it allows oil to run the full length of the pto shaft where it rides against the bronze bushing that supports the pto shft as its exits the rear of the pump housing. there is two bronze bushing in there. on is the afore mentioned one and the other is about 1/4 of an inch wide and thick. the cup that goes over the two seals rides against this bushing. here is where i think my problem is with the two oil mixing together. that surface between the two parts is only wearing on a ridge that is about 1/16 of an inch wide. the cup holder itself is about 1/4 of an inch wide. shouldn't the two mating surfaces be riding completely flat againt each other. i think my spring has weakened that puts pressure on the two parts to hold the together. i intend to replace everything in there if i can find the parts. i still am at a lose about what any washer at all is doing on the inner end of the drive shafts. i can see a washer protecting the face of a seal, but there is nothing in there for it to protect aganst. now i can see the 1/8 inch thick washer being between the bearing and the seal to protect the seal face if the bearing started wearing down and got close to the seal face, but for it to be on the outside of the seal facing toward the outside end of the axle doesn't make sense. i can see why there was so much space between the seal and the back side of the machie=ned surface where it drives into as being not driven in al the way to let the new seal ride on a new spot on the axle. probably a worn place where the seal orginally was placed in there by jd. one other note on cleaning out the housing where the axle goes in. on the end of the housing where it fastenens to the tracotr housing there is a cavity that runs from behind the bearing and race down toward the draw bar. it is very deep and full of everything. i could see drilling a hole and putting in a pipe plug there to drain the excess oil out ever so often if the seal don't work right. it wouldn't take much of a plug to do that. i don't know if it will weaken the housing or not. more as i found out things.

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johns48jdb

03-02-2008 08:26:51




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 Re: update on rear axle removal on 48 b in reply to johns48jdb, 03-01-2008 15:22:45  
another up date - we took the pto pump a part this morning and there is parts 29 thru 32 in there. part 32 page 78 pc-330 is a bronze bushing that the cup part 31 rides against. now, is the cup suppose to turn with the pto shaft and spin against the bushing. mine has been turning some i can tell. the back of 31 rides against 32 (cup slides over two washers and rides against bronze bushing) how ever it looks to me like the back of the cup only makes contact with the bushing on a spot that is 1/16 of an inch wide. oil isn't under pressure here that i can tell. now immediately behind the bronze bushing there is a big hole that allows trany oil to get to the back side of a bronze bushing that the pto shaft exists thru into the rear end cavity. this other bronze bushing is what supports the pto shaft where it enters the rear housing that holds the power trol. i can't find that bushing in the parts book any place. mine sure needs replacing if i can find the part number. its liveable with it like it is but is real scratched up. i don't know if the spring has gotten weak over the years that holds the washers in the seal retaining cup that puts pressure on the thick bronze bushing or not. think i'll replace it if its available. i really don't see how this seals the off flow of the two different fluids

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johns48jdb

03-01-2008 18:52:13




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 Re: update on rear axle removal on 48 b in reply to johns48jdb, 03-01-2008 15:22:45  
thanks for resposes. the washer i'm talking about isn't shown in the parts book i don't think. on one side there was a washer next to the oil seal that was about 1/8 of an inch thick. the other two washers, one each side, was very thin. if you cut the washer in half and looked at the cross section it would look like an upside down "t". they fit very loosely on the axle and was worn half the thickness from the inside toward the outside of the washer. i don't see anything to hold them in place and see they do anything to contribute to sealing out oil. they are not the felt retainers for sure. i did find it interesting that one of the axles has a ridge on the axle where the inner part of the felt retainer would only go on so far. the other axle doesn't have the ridge on it. after looking at my parts book it apperars to be item 13, a spacer. is it possible another year model axle was put in on on side or was this spacer left off during another repair job? i had a small piece of angle iron welded to a 24 inch long rod that i use to clean sediment out of hot water heaters with and i used it to rake all the tons of grease that had worked its way down into the cavity of the housing. i don't have a clue about how they do these casting for these axle housing, but the inside of the housing is hollowed out where the five bolts go on the rear of the axle to hold the cultivators on. one of the five holes is actaully a bump inside the housing for the middle bolt hole. how do you mold something like that and it felt perfect on the inside. i'm real curious as to why the inner part of the pto shaft would have a spiraled grove cut into it. i don't know how far in the shaft it goes because i haven't taken it out yet, but it does stick out about 1/4 of an inch. going to tear into the pto pump tomorrow and i'll keep you'll posted.

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wilamayb

03-01-2008 21:45:15




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 Re: update on rear axle removal on 48 b in reply to johns48jdb, 03-01-2008 18:52:13  
I'm not sure about the thin washer unless it was added by a proior mechanic trying to space the seal out to rub on a new portion of the axle for better sealing?



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johns48jdb

03-02-2008 05:41:53




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 Re: update on rear axle removal on 48 b in reply to wilamayb, 03-01-2008 21:45:15  
that's the rub. the seals were not driven in past the end of the housing, just like on a hub of a car. they were flush and i'm sure that the thin washers were put in by somebody, but for them to be worn on one edge nearly half way through didn't make any sense at all. they couldn't have been centered for that to happen. why was the spacer, item 13 page 74 pc-330, left off one axle. couldn't get a replacement part maybe. why would it need replacing anyway. nothing wears on it. looks like the felt retainer is used to hold the outer bearing in place too. worked for 60+ years so i assume its ok to put it back that way. just some little odites that don't make much sense to me, but it doesn't take much to snow me sometimes. now that i think about it the spacer may have been used to hold the bearing in place. i've owned the tractor a good 20 years and never had the bearing run out or cause any problems. food for thought.

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jdhbag

03-01-2008 18:10:13




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 Re: update on rear axle removal on 48 b in reply to johns48jdb, 03-01-2008 15:22:45  
It sounds like that thin washer that you are talking about, if it is at the outer end of the axle houseing, it could be what is left of the outer felt retainer which will have to be replaced. The only other washer that i can find is item #24 Pg 74 PC 330 which is definitely required. If those thin washers you talk about are what is left of the felt retainer then they will have to be replaced, $27.00 each from Deere.

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Cool-B's

03-01-2008 16:42:37




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 Re: update on rear axle removal on 48 b in reply to johns48jdb, 03-01-2008 15:22:45  
If you have not done it take a little time and get most of the oil out of the axle housing.I know how it feels to park on a side hill and have old gear lube soak though the felt and drip all over nice yellow paint.



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