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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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engine exhaust valve rotators

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Dave in SV

02-06-2008 08:54:30




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In an earlier post, I was told that exhaust valve rotators may be a good idea if the tractor is going to be worked harder. My tractor will not be worked hard... at least not on an expected/ regular basis. My question is... are rotators a detrement in an engine that is NOT worked hard?




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jdemaris

02-06-2008 15:00:58




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 Re: engine exhaust valve rotators in reply to Dave in SV, 02-06-2008 08:54:30  
If you are going to spend any extra money for better durability, you will gain a lot more by having hard valve seats installed in the exhausts.
The original seats are soft and take an extra beating with unleaded gasoline. They wore fast enough with the leaded gas, and I did a lot of valve jobs on them when they were actually being used as daily farm tractors.

If you're going to have the head off anyway, having the head cut and seat inserts installed should only cost around $20 a seat. Not a big deal in the long haul.

Unleaded fuel isnt' something you'd notice with occasional or light use, but over the long run, and/or with some hard use, it does.

You might already have seats installed anyway, if it's had professional valve work done before.

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Dave in SV

02-06-2008 16:45:51




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 Re: engine exhaust valve rotators in reply to jdemaris, 02-06-2008 15:00:58  
Good point about the seats. I presume that I will be able to tell if there are new seat inserts visually once I have the head off?



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jdemaris

02-07-2008 05:45:50




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 Re: engine exhaust valve rotators in reply to Dave in SV, 02-06-2008 16:45:51  
Yes, they will be easy to see. The soft seats are what led to many burnt valves and frequent valve jobs in all the older stuff, cars, trucks, and tractors - and that was with leaded gas. With unleaded gas, the seats wear even faster.

I wouldn't do a valve job on anything without installing exhaust seats unless it was a machine that was strictly for show and never really got used. Also, if a flathead - I often don't do it since to do so - would require pulling the engine and bringing the whole block to the machine shop.
I just got done fixing up an Oliver Cletrac dozer with a Hercules IXB, valves-in-block engine and the seats were worn something awful. It needed seats badly, but I refused to pull the engine out. So, I ground them extremely deep and am now using a gas-additive. That because I really use the little dozer for pushing dirt in tight places and it needs all the help it can get. It should of had seat-inserts - but I was too cheap.

I realize that a lot of this older stuff does NOT get used hard anymore - so, it's a personal choice. I use most of my older machines for real work. I don't mind spending an extra $40-$100 on seats knowing that it will make a valve-job last much longer (as long as it's valve-in-head engines). Seems many people have forgotten (or weren't around) when cars and trucks got routine "carbon and valve jobs" every 80K miles.
Farm tractors also got them often - miles and/or ours unknown. It's pretty much unheard of today. That because #1 unleaded gas leaves less deposits, and #2 all the heads have hard seats now. Ironically, it's the lead-oxide deposits that leaded gas used to leave that protected seats from wearing out - until it built up so much it could hold valves open enough to leak. One of the purposes of valve-rotators was to spin the valves a bit that made them self-cleaning.

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raddlechain

02-06-2008 10:20:42




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 Re: engine exhaust valve rotators in reply to Dave in SV, 02-06-2008 08:54:30  
No, they won't hurt, might help a little, but probably not enough to notice. If you're not going to work your tractor hard, why go to the expense, unless you already have the parts?



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Dave in SV

02-06-2008 11:56:07




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 Re: engine exhaust valve rotators in reply to raddlechain, 02-06-2008 10:20:42  
Thanks for the post. At this point, I am in the process of hunting for parts (new or NOS), in anticipation of a rebuild. So, I really don't know just what I'll need... trying to look ahead. Using JDPARTS as a reference, rotator caps are $73, regular caps are $46.



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Mike M

02-06-2008 10:20:35




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 Re: engine exhaust valve rotators in reply to Dave in SV, 02-06-2008 08:54:30  
You have a JD A ? don't you ? I would not worry about it. Just grind the valves narrow the seats to the proper width and make sure the guides are in spec.



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Dave in SV

02-06-2008 11:59:28




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 Re: engine exhaust valve rotators in reply to Mike M, 02-06-2008 10:20:35  
Yes, a '49A. I have NOS valves and guides, just in case... and figured that if I install the NOS parts, I should consider the "upgrade" to rotators, if not detrimental (to the engine... I already know it'll be detrimental to my pocket!).

Thanks for the reply.



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Mike M

02-06-2008 12:33:56




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 Re: engine exhaust valve rotators in reply to Dave in SV, 02-06-2008 11:59:28  
May order new springs as well. They used to be surprizingly cheap. I wish I would of replaced more of them. I had always assumed they were high dollar and never priced them. Most of them would meet pressure spec. with the caps on so I never worried about them much on these slow engines.



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Mike M

02-06-2008 12:39:30




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 Re:more info in reply to Mike M, 02-06-2008 12:33:56  
Those spring caps should not need replacing if staying with reg. style springs. I hardly see how they would wear. A new set of the little keeper keys might not be a bad idea.



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Dave in SV

02-06-2008 12:58:15




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 Re:more info in reply to Mike M, 02-06-2008 12:39:30  
I agree. Thanks.



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Kent Petersen

02-06-2008 16:20:38




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 Re:more info in reply to Dave in SV, 02-06-2008 12:58:15  
Dave you will need to replace springs on rotors as they a diffent, rotors are four ex vales only on the A Kent



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Dave in SV

02-06-2008 16:43:21




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 Re:more info in reply to Kent Petersen, 02-06-2008 16:20:38  
I noticed that in the PC675. Thanks for the reminder! Any clue why/what is different about the springs due to rotator caps?



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Mike M

02-06-2008 17:25:39




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 Re:more info in reply to Dave in SV, 02-06-2008 16:43:21  
The rotator caps are thicker so the spring is shorter and I think those are also smaller OD.

I may of misread your original question ? Yes rotators ARE for better durabilty. BUT I seriously doubt you will ever notice the difference even if you run it hard on this tractor. I think I tore one down once that had them on all four valves.

And actually the exhaust valves don't have as much problems as the intakes. I have had alot more intake valves on 2 cyl. tractors not survive the grinding. They seem to get more hammered up faces. Also the intake stems get more wear from dirt in the air so check the stem wear too.

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Dave in SV

02-06-2008 18:43:51




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 Re:more info in reply to Mike M, 02-06-2008 17:25:39  
Info appreciated! Thanks.



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