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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420

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John Deere Jeff

01-21-2008 19:29:29




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Can anyone out there help me determine the difference between a john deere 40 and Phase 1 420. I am looking for external differences excluding the engine and sheetmetal. Are there some little differences between the tractors that I should look for to help me figure out what model tractor I have?? Please help guys. Again I am looking at everything excluding the engine and sheetmetal.




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John Deere Jeff

01-23-2008 08:26:06




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 Re: Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420 in reply to John Deere Jeff, 01-21-2008 19:29:29  
Hi Guys,
The reason I ask this question is because I recently purchased a High Crop and its either a 40 or phase 1 420. The problem is, the tag was stolen many years ago and it has a Brand New 430 engine with no block number. So its kinda hard to distinguish the differences between the 40 and phase 1 420 tractors. I know that there is a serial number on the transmission case and I am having it researched through Deere. I 've been told that the transmission case serial number is just as good as the block #.(I hope my sources are correct, If anyone can confirm this please let me know.) The only thing that I can say is that the part# for the transmission case is M2980T which is unique to 40 tractos or at least it says in the parts books, but Deere may have had leftover parts and used them on early 420's. So I'm kinda running into a brick wall right now no matter which direction I try to turn. Hopefully the Deere research will pay off.
Thanks Guys,
John Deere Jeff

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CPeter

01-22-2008 17:01:45




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 Re: Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420 in reply to Ten-Twenty, 01-21-2008 19:29:29  
I believe that referred to the '57 model year beginning with serial number 100,001. I think that phase I only had 4 speed tranny and no live PTO, but I may be wrong on that. The '57 models come out in the last half of '56. That creates a lot of confusion.

CPeter



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Rusty Wheel

01-22-2008 09:39:51




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 Re: Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420 in reply to John Deere Jeff, 01-21-2008 19:29:29  
One major difference is the 420 had live pto and the 40 did not. Also, the bore of the 420 is .25 larger then the 40. This change gave the 420 about 5 more hp than the 40..... ..... RW



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4020LP

01-22-2008 09:58:05




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 Re: Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420 in reply to Rusty Wheel, 01-22-2008 09:39:51  
The Phase 1 420's did NOT have live PTO. It wasn't until the Phase II tractors that the two-stage clutch for the "live" PTO was available.



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Rusty Wheel

01-22-2008 16:58:15




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 Re: Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420 in reply to 4020LP, 01-22-2008 09:58:05  
Howdy 4020LP. Good to hear from you. Acording to my buyers guide the 420-W was introduced in 1956, the first year for the 420 models. The 420 offered a number of new optional features such as a live pto and a five speed gearbox. Granted, these weren't standard features, but they were available, unless my book is mistaken. Very possible..... RW



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4020LP

01-22-2008 18:08:32




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 Re: Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420 in reply to Rusty Wheel, 01-22-2008 16:58:15  
The "live" (actually a two-stage PTO) and the five-speed transmission were not available on 420 tractors until serial number 100001, which was the start of the 1957 model year. Look it up in the parts book. What "buyer's guide" do you have? Some of them are veritable treasure troves of misinformation.



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Rusty Wheel

01-22-2008 20:36:10




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 Re: Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420 in reply to 4020LP, 01-22-2008 18:08:32  
Thanks for the info 4020LP. I think I got it now. I've had this book about 12 years. I seem to recall seeing other things in this book that aren't exactly right, and at times information is really hard to decipher. Thanks again.....RW



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MLD

01-22-2008 08:02:00




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 Re: Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420 in reply to John Deere Jeff, 01-21-2008 19:29:29  
The easiest way to determine it is the serial number. The 40 & the 420 are two different tractors. When the 420 came out with its increased horsepower, the 40 was continued in the line as the 320. Only difference is the yellow stripe on the hood.



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CPeter

01-22-2008 05:24:51




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 Re: Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420 in reply to Old Bob, 01-21-2008 19:29:29  
Many of the castings are different and have different casting numbers. The center frame is different. The radiator is different. A 420 has a larger hole around the radiator cap and the 40 cap is above the nose piece. Why do you ask?

I have one of each, so maybe I can help if I knew what you are looking for.

CPeter



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4020LP

01-21-2008 20:02:53




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 Re: Difference between 40 and Phase 1 420 in reply to John Deere Jeff, 01-21-2008 19:29:29  
You're not giving us much to work with. The easiest way to tell a Phase 1 "420" from a "40" is that the "420" engine has a water pump, and the "40" engine does not. I don't understand why you're excluding the engine---that's where most of the differences were. A "420" dash would have a knockout plate for a speed-hour meter. Give us some other facts about your tractor, and perhaps we can help you.

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