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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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all-fuel engine

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jose miguel

01-04-2008 15:29:24




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the all-fuel engine can running with diesel only ??




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Nathan Kapp

01-07-2008 18:22:35




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 Re: all-fuel engine in reply to jose miguel, 01-04-2008 15:29:24  
I was told that today's kerosene is different (more refined) than that available in the 50s and that these tractors should not be run on today's kerosene. Has anyone actually run their all fuel on today's kerosene. It would save money running on kerosene - esp if gas hits 4 dollars/gal.



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John T

01-04-2008 15:53:25




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 Re: all-fuel engine in reply to jose miguel, 01-04-2008 15:29:24  
If you mean an all fuel two cylinder Deere, NO..... .it wouldnt run worth a hoot, it would also foul the plugs. Some have cut diesel with gas n got em to run. Even when using the proper distillate or tractor or drip fuel (close to todays Kerosene) one had to start them on gas n get the temp up to 180 and more before changing over to tractor fuel.

John T



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kurt_jdb

01-04-2008 18:40:26




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 Re: all-fuel engine in reply to John T, 01-04-2008 15:53:25  
John,

I am getting ready to put all-fuel pistons back in my late all-fuel B. I figure that if I"m going to restore the tractor, why not go all the way?

Anyway, I"m going to be running it mostly on gasoline, and try out a little kerosene now and again.

I notice that the gas tractors have a heat shield under the tank, and the all fuel tractors do not. Do you know of any safety or other reason why running gas in the big tank without the heat shield would be a problem? I also plan to put the all fuel manifold back on.

Kurt

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johns48jdb

01-05-2008 15:43:36




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 Re: all-fuel engine in reply to kurt_jdb, 01-04-2008 18:40:26  
i have a sad story to tell about a guy who borrowed an m to bush hog one day. the tractor he was using was a "community" tractor. the guy who owned it would let any body borrow it. seems like somebody borrowed it and ran the exhaust under something a bent it over. in straightening it up he broke a hole in it below the hood line. the guy who was using it had just filled it with gas on a hot july day and for some reason the tractor wasn"t running right and he leaned over and took the gas cap off. the gas exploded out on him and caught him on fire. it burnt every thing on him except the bottoms of his feet where his tennis shoes fit tight. he lived 8 days in the hospital. they took knives and cut splits in him all over to let the fluid drain out because he was swelling up so bad. apparently, according to the tractor owner, the broken exhaust pipe was putting alot of heat out under the hood and got the gas tank hot enough to blow gas all over this guy. i hate to make this so graphic, but i want all of those who read this to remember it and not put gas in a hot engine or open the gas tank when a tractor is running. i believe i"d put the shield back on any tractor i was going to work or pull.

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Mike Aylward

01-04-2008 16:55:02




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 Re: all-fuel engine in reply to John T, 01-04-2008 15:53:25  
John, while it probably isn't the best method to use, these old all-fuel tractors will actually run on diesel fuel. About 35 years ago I saw an old family friend run his '37 A on straight #2 diesel fuel. But it was July, he was plowing wheat stubble and putting quite a load on the tractor and he still had part of the radiator covered. But the old girl was pulling a 3-14 International plow with slat bottoms on it and getting along just fine. It smoked just like it would if it were a true diesel but it had quite a bit of power (which makes sense given diesel's higher BTU content). But when my dad and I stopped by to holler at him he said he couldn't talk long because the tractor would cool off too much and not run right. He said "just before it starts to boil over she runs about right". He was a well known Deere mechanic and knew what he was doing. I would have never believed it had I not seen it myself. But today is not July, and most old tractors aren't loaded enough to even make gas burn right, let alone something heavier. Everyone is fearful of tearing up these old tractors by putting too much of a load on them but that is the absolute best thing someone can do- put them to work. Parading and light work is the worst for an engine. Just thought I would throw this in. Mike

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jose miguel

01-05-2008 05:22:29




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 Re: all-fuel engine in reply to Mike Aylward, 01-04-2008 16:55:02  
the all-fuel engines used spark plug ?? what is the compresion ratio ??



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gtx1967jewison

01-08-2008 08:42:44




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 Re: all-fuel engine in reply to jose miguel, 01-05-2008 05:22:29  
yes they use spark plugs, yes they run on todays kerosene, even diesel. but to do so requires hot spark set to tdc or slightly retarded (atdc) to avoid preignition. temp needs to be HOT, close to boiling. 190++ , needs a load to work right. shutters wont do it on my 41 a, so installed a 2.5" ball valve in lower water pipe used as a thermostat. compression ratio is very low, 4 or 5 to 1 i believe. cranking pressure with a gauge is 60 to 80 psi- thats it. a modern v8 gasser wont even start at that pressure. u need the allfuel manifold & carb also or it wont work. most have been changed to gas. also more compression wont work- it will detonate itself to death. need to start & also shutdown on gas. remember- boiling is only 212 or so, & modern engines run 220+ all the time. the long stroke & large bore of these engines were chosen originally because they work successfully together to burn the heavy fuels efficiently & successfully. also- use cold plugs. & yes ive done it.

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