IT Shop Manual...NOT IMPRESSED. Options?

Is there any other manuals out there that give "step by step" instructions on where and what and how to remove/replace? Thanks for any help. I'm doing a clutch rebuild and have never done it. I have everthing apart and am waiting on parts. We'll see how it goes back together.

I hope no one takes offense to any of my posts, I wasn't slammin' the IT...not too much anyway. I prolly got at least $15 out of the $30 book. :)

Back to our regularly scheduled program....

Like Buick says, "about as useful aas a paperweight"!

An I&T is the only technical information we have ever owned for any of my letter series two cylinders. With a JD parts catalog and an I&T I've always manged to make them run pretty well.

All that said I would agree that there is no replacement for a Deere manual for the later tractors. There are just somethings that only the creating engineer knew about the tractor. Deere spent hours and hours creating the parts to make up the tractor. If they dont know about it no one else does either.

I&T manuals filled a vast void in the Deere documention world, no doubt -- but Deere learned somewhere along the way (so it would appear) that demand WAS there for Deere service manuals. Were this not the case, I&T manuals would be ALL we would have to choose from.

I will grant you -- for the mechanic who makes a living and needs only an occasional look into ANY shop manual, I&T fills the bill. But for a beginner -- the service manual is expected to fill a huge void left by the parts catalog and operator's manual, and he will be hungry for far more information than is found in the I&T manuals.

The truth be known, the ideal service manual would be a restoration guide! And there are a few of those out there, but none that are really comprehensive/complete! Now -- there's a void YOU can fill -- given your many years on the job. Experienced writers are few and far between. I have to warn you though, folks are looking for more that a breakout drawing and a few sentences telling them how to take something apart followed by the one more sentence that says to re-assemble, reverse the steps of dis-assembly! (PatB)

No matter how well a book is written, and regardless of style and/or content, it's not going to be the "perfect" book for all people and situations. People differ too much - with their skill level, tools available, and what exactly they are looking to do.

I guess we're lucky to have many choices. I buy OEM manuals for all my cars and trucks because the I&T equivalents - Chiltons and Haynes - are much more useless to me - than I&Ts are for tractor work. I also buy OEM manuals for all tractors I own - when possible and when priced reasonably.

I can fix almost any problem on any tractor with an I&T manual. I can't do the same with a car or truck using a Chiltons or Haynes.

My point was, still is, and will remain to be - there's lots of useful information in the I&T books. Are they comprehensive? No. It seems though, that they dropped one their best publications - Standard Units.

So you see, it is a matter of background. Some of us like those nice additives in a service manual and some of us do not need them. I believe it is as simple as that.

What is often overlooked here is that at any given point in time, a huge number of folks messing around with antique tractors are not well versed in the hobby. Actually, for each and every one of them, there was one of a few beginning points. Many had one or more on the farm during their younger years, and some were kind of lead into the hobby by a friend or as a result of attending some event featuring tractors. And then there is a definite minority in terms of numbers of those who were tractor technicians during their work life. And you do not have to think long to realize the needs for documentation for each groups will surely be different.

As for giving you an order -- you take it to the bank -- it wasn't my intention. And if you took it that way, you have my sincere apology. I don't mean to ruffle feathers but rather -- communicate. You will have to admit -- many commenters do not think much of the I&T series as shop service manuals, and I generally agree. I wish for you a Great Day and a Happy Thanksgiving. (PatB)

One thing I particulary like (or liked) about them - is their common phrase "assembly is self-evident", which . . . to paraphrase . . . connontes - "if you can't figure this one out yourself, you shouldn't be allowed to own a wrench." They don't waste a lot of time or paper explaining simple, generic functions.

My needs are bit different for tractor repair data since I've been doing it my entire life. I still experience the feeling though - of being totally new and clueless to something technical. It happened when home computers first came out. Also when satellite TV was in its beginning stage. So, I still get into things that require some sort of comprehensive book that attempts to lead me every step of the way. I say "attempts", since in my experience, it rarely works. The real learning - for me - takes place when I actually dig into something, and perhaps screw it up a few times. I'm pretty good at making bad mistakes only once, and learning well from them. It's worked with tractors, cars, and wives.

And how can they go around knocking the content in them as alot of it AND the pictures are copied right out of the factory manuals ?

I sure don't understand this hate toward them ?

If they want to hate something maybe thay should direct this anger toward a company that has long ago since paid off any costs makeing up the old manuals and in this day and age of cheap copying they are still wanting way overinflated prices for their manuals and won't let anyone else set them up for free view on a website. There is a fellow doing just this with other brands.

The older manuals from the 50s - make it very clear with the following in the intro:

"Contained in it are the necessary specifications and the brief but terse procedural data needed by a mechanic . . . "

Note the words "brief" and "mechanic."

Also explained is . . . data is NOT included for . . . "carburetors, clutches, ignition units, generators, regulators, and starting motors."

All that is covered in a separate I&T book - that of "Standard Units." I've got a stack of them - they are a fantastic refernce source.

I&T also made some excellent "service manual and pricing guide" books. For example, I have one printed 1960, priced at $4.95 that covers Deere MC, 40C, 420C, 430C, 440IC, and 440ID. It gives repair and flat-rate pricing information. It's 144 pages and has some infomation you'd have a hard time finding these days. But - maybe the hourly shop rates are a little outdated?? It shows a range - for shop labor charges - from $2.50 and hour - up to $7.50 per hour.

It does seem though, that as time goes on, I&T has put less of the disclaimer in the intro, raised the prices way up, and perhaps are attempting to cater to a different market. I haven't bought a new one in years - but have noticed the price tags.

I certainly would not turn down a Deere manual if I have that available, but I won't detract from an I&T manual if you are experienced enough to understand when disassembly is evident, common mechanical procedures, and you have a history of having successfully disassembled and reassembled countless mechanisms. A lot of people buy a $150 manual and don't have a single decent micrometer. Choices, even bad ones, are made every day.

Like Buick says, "about as useful aas a paperweight"!

Like Buick says, "about as useful aas a paperweight"!

(SORRY about the mutltiple posts above!)

Gerald J.

If you register and provide your dealer name you can check the price and if your dealer has it in inventory! Your basically have access to some of the same systems the dealer uses. Bet you can't do that with IH :)

Just kidding, I have an Farmall but had to poke back about the manual comment.

I have an IT manual for my 520 and found it has far less detail. Not only does it explain how to fix a problem it explains the operation and function. It's much easier to diagnose a problem if you know how it's supposed to work.

I will say if you buy from Deere it will be a copy and some photographs will be less than perfect. I think the original manuals had a few color diagrams; hydraulic oil flow, transmission, etc. The copy from Deere won't have this.

Hope this helps.

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